Shooting inside Sikh temple in Wisconsin

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Its existed for a lot longer than that.

See McVeigh, Timothy, Kaczynski Ted, Kehoe Andrew, Rudolph Eric, Hasan Nidal...etc etc.

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

In 1995, a fomer soldier upset over the ATF's handling of the siege at a cult compound outside of Waco, TX planned an executed the bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, OK killing 168 and wounding nearly 700 more.

Definitely. I'm speaking in more recent terms.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Those charges were dropped(other than a few illegal possession charges for firearms). The folks charged spent 2 years in jail without bond only to have a judge say the charges lacked merit. They also have recieved all their legal weapons back.

The FBI had an agent undercover in the group for 4 years. They even rented the warehouse where the group stored its weapons. So it is a little hard to say the justice department gives christian groups a pass:

Who said that?

As for the rest of that story; I think it's an example as to why there should be more strict laws with regards to guns in the hands of mentally unstable people. I don't particularly feel comfortable with a man such as David Stone having legal access to weapons. Now, I understand that if such a person were to commit a crime beyond just rhetoric, then they would obtain weapons illegaly but that's not what I'm arguing here.

As for the what you said with regards to the justice department giving Christian groups a pass, I never argued that so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. The fact that they're a Christian militia isn't even relevent to my point of modern domestic terrorism. It just so happened to be their classification.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

So do you think there are more crazy idiots in the USA than every other western civilized nation?

If you go by the rate of psychoactive pharmaceutical use and mental illness diagnoses yes. They are the most drugged and psychotic country in the world. 7x more pharma companies than anywhere else
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ies_by_country

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Definitely. I'm speaking in more recent terms.



Who said that?

As for the rest of that story; I think it's an example as to why there should be more strict laws with regards to guns in the hands of mentally unstable people. I don't particularly feel comfortable with a man such as David Stone having legal access to weapons. Now, I understand that if such a person were to commit a crime beyond just rhetoric, then they would obtain weapons illegaly but that's not what I'm arguing here.

As for the what you said with regards to the justice department giving Christian groups a pass, I never argued that so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. The fact that they're a Christian militia isn't even relevent to my point of modern domestic terrorism. It just so happened to be their classification.

Sorry I guess it was Phanuthier who was asking why white supremacist groups weren't targeted not you.

I am a little disappointed that all you take from that is that we need tighter gun laws. Americans had their guns taken away and were held for 2 years without bond. The charges turned out to be false.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by vektor

If you go by the rate of psychoactive pharmaceutical use and mental illness diagnoses yes. They are the most drugged and psychotic country in the world. 7x more pharma companies than anywhere else
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ies_by_country

I'm not sure what correlation you are drawing from # of pharmaceutical companies to # of mentally ill. The US has more companies than the rest of the world in a lot of industries as it is the largest consumer in the world.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I'm not sure what correlation you are drawing from # of pharmaceutical companies to # of mentally ill. The US has more companies than the rest of the world in a lot of industries.

And what's your point. They are the most mentally ill country in the world, arguing against it is arguing against every single statistic. They have more fast food companies too, they are also extremely obese. They have a crapload of oil companies, they use the most fossil fuels.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Sorry I guess it was Phanuthier who was asking why white supremacist groups weren't targeted not you.

I am a little disappointed that all you take from that is that we need tighter gun laws. Americans had their guns taken away and were held for 2 years without bond. The charges turned out to be false.

That's an entirely different matter. I'm still pretty wary considering quotes such as,

"It is time to strike and take our nation back so that we may be free again from tyranny," David Stone said. "Time is up, God bless all of you and welcome to the new revolution."

As for the case itself; there may have not been enough evidence to convict them of conspiracy, I still think it's dangerous to allow somebody such as David Stone the ability to have weapons. I'm glad they had their weapons taken away. It's unfortunate they had to be held for 2 years without bond but honestly in this case I don't think it went unfounded. I don't know anything about the investigation beyond quotes in the articles, but it sounds like he and his group weren't mentally sound. Add that to his arsenal and knowledge of explosives, mixed with a distrust of the government. But I digress.

Attacks like the topic at hand will continue to happen in one way or another. Gun control is a lost battle. It would be nice if we could wave a magic wand and remove illegal guns but it just won't happen. The best thing we can do is promote better weapons education and perhaps a more strict stance on mental capicity, but I don't even know if that would work.

The idea that guns are a "right" to the American people is so ingrained into such a large population that anybody looking can get access to almost any kind of gun. If, on the off-chance, there is any sort of invasion on US soil or a civil war then all the gun owners will simply say "I told you so."

I don't really have a plausible solution though. It's so deep in the culture, it's unlikely to change any time soon.

[Displaced Flames fan]

President Obama just ordered by proclaimation that flags be flown at half staff until sundown on August 10th.

I'm off to comply.

[puckluck2]

Turns out the accused shot himself in the head after being shot in the stomach.