Lance Armstrong to be charged with doping?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Azure

The case against Ryan Braun was overturned because his testosterone levels were high due to taking medication for a personal medical issue.

The 2nd test he took showed normal levels.

He never tested positive for any steroid use. His testosterone levels were high, and the MLB automatically assumed he had to be doping.

Melky being suspended is one player. I'm talking about over the past 20 years, all the top players in the game, how many have been caught juicing?

Are you just making stuff up? He got it overturned on a technicality over minor storage and shipping protocols.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

A-Rod,

Hasn't been using for a while, and still a top player. Obviously didn't make much of a difference for him. He was a damn good player in Seattle already.

Palmeiro

One of the few that tested positive.

, Bonds,

Never proven. Like really, it call comes from a 'book.' He got into trouble for obstruction of justice, but not for failing a drug test. So, speculation.

Sosa,

Again, just rumored. Never proven.

Clemens,

He was accused by the Mitchell Report, denied it in front of Congress, charged with 6 counts of perjury, and later cleared of all charges. So again, just more speculation.

Pettite

Admitted to using it to recover from an injury. Never used it afterwards. Everything else is just speculation.

So one player from your list has been caught red-handed. Two have admitted to using it, but have since moved on, and all the others are speculated on.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Are you just making stuff up? He got it overturned on a technicality over minor storage and shipping protocols.

I never meant to say it was overturned because of taking the drug due to personal medical issues.

Sorry about that.

[Jason14h]

Azure I have a bridge i want to sell you

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Azure I have a bridge i want to sell you

Sorry, but I disagree that baseball players juice as much as people think they do. I don't believe it can make someone that much better as a player.

Nevermind that you simply don't get better as a player without putting in the practice time, no matter how many PEDs you take.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

That reminds me of an article I read a few years ago. The author, a former competitive cyclist, used a combination of anecdotal experience, statistical evaluation of race times before and after EPO became available, and game theory to build a case that basically all of the top bike racers were cheating. If they strip Armstrong's wins, chances are whoever is next in line was just as bad.

I believe all seven 2nd place finishers tested possitive or admitted they were doping,truth be known you would have to go very far down the list to find a clean rider worthy of those yellow jackets.

The UCI knows there was a doping problem and wants to clean up their athletes and the best scare tactic is to get the best rider of all time.

Hindsight is 20/20 but Armstrong should have admitted to a little off season "injury" doping in the end. It probably would have stopped this little witch hunt by the USADA.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by T@T

I believe all seven 2nd place finishers tested possitive or admitted they were doping,truth be known you would have to go very far down the list to find a clean rider worthy of those yellow jackets.

The UCI knows there was a doping problem and wants to clean up their athletes and the best scare tactic is to get the best rider of all time.

Hindsight is 20/20 but Armstrong should have admitted to a little off season "injury" doping in the end. It probably would have stopped this little witch hunt by the USADA.

It was only the Festina scandel in '98 that forced cycling to at least look like they were trying to stop drug use, and it wasn't until the late 2000's that they actually did try to stop it, I doubt any rider on the tour was clean pre 2005, from the lowliest domestique to the team leader.

remember in cycling the doping is administered on a team level by team doctors, this is wholly unlike baseball

Hindsight is 20/20 but Armstrong should have admitted to a little off season "injury" doping in the end. It probably would have stopped this little witch hunt by the USADA

I think this has more to do with the USDA trying to punish the UCI for its lax attitude to doping, I also suspect Lance is counting on the UCI refusing to honour the USDA's findings.

[Azure]

And doping can be hugely beneficial in cycling.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

And doping can be hugely beneficial in cycling.

the 'clean' tours have been so boring as to be unwatchable, give me Indurian doped to hulk like proportions or Armstrong on the Alpe De Huez taunting his rivals anyday.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

You're joking here, right?

You must be new around here.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think this has more to do with the USDA trying to punish the UCI for its lax attitude to doping, I also suspect Lance is counting on the UCI refusing to honour the USDA's findings.

I think the USASDA will eventually crash and burn on this. A pyrrhic victory that leads to reform within an overly politicized organization. And Armstrong will probably retain or eventually recover the titles.

They seem to have successfully turned a probable doper into an underdog hero.

A pretty typical rebuttal that you're seeing across the media universe, this one in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...tml?tid=pm_pop

or this in the Calgary Herald

http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2012/...nce-armstrong/

Cowperson

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I think the USASDA will eventually crash and burn on this. A pyrrhic victory that leads to reform within an overly politicized organization. And Armstrong will probably retain or eventually recover the titles.

They seem to have successfully turned a probable doper into an underdog hero.

A pretty typical rebuttal that you're seeing across the media universe, this one in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...tml?tid=pm_pop

or this in the Calgary Herald

http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2012/...nce-armstrong/

Cowperson

The titles are probably irrelevant at this point. This era of the tour de France is tainted forever and the historical significance has been lost anyway. Same goes for the once magical mlb hr record,

I see the sentiment moving more from forgetting about Armstrong as the world's greatest cyclist and focusing on the good things he's done.

I do notice in his statement that he never flat out states that he didn't do any drugs or doping. Just that he followed the rules and didn't fail any tests. It seems that in his mind the rules are you can do whatever you want up to the point of triggering a positive on a drug test.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/national...425_story.html

I used to buy into the sentiment that everyone else is doing it, who cares. But now that I have kids, my outlook has really changed. Every dad likes to dream that one day their boy will play in the majors. I'd hope that if that is ever the case that sports will be completely clean, so my kids wouldn't have to make the decision to risk their long term health for a few years of glory. Sports are supposed to be good for you, not blow up your liver.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the 'clean' tours have been so boring as to be unwatchable, give me Indurian doped to hulk like proportions or Armstrong on the Alpe De Huez taunting his rivals anyday.

Was Indurain ever revealed as a doper? hard to keep up anymore, remember watching the ealry 90's tours and he would just destroy guys especially in the time trials...

[SportsJunky]

habernac, your silence is deafening! I'm kidding of course but I would be interested in your take on this.

[habernac]

not on the computer much these days, I haven't worked since June.

I'd be very interested to see what the USADA has that the US govt did not. They investigated for two years and dropped the case due to lack of evidence. If there's such hard evidence that he used EPO in 2010, why is it only now that this is coming out? And how does that have any bearing on his 7 Tour wins? Did that happen in 2010? Nope.

Sounds like a big witch hunt to me. I'll wait for more evidence to be presented.

[Azure]

Didn't he pass something like 600 drug tests? Witch hunt is about right.

[Mike F]

So what do you make of the testimony of his former teammates, including Hincapie? Lies?

The witch hunt metaphor would be more apropos if we lived in a world where people had routinely been discovered to be witches, despite vehemently denying it for years.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Mike F

So what do you make of the testimony of his former teammates, including Hincapie? Lies?

The witch hunt metaphor would be more apropos if we lived in a world where people had routinely been discovered to be witches, despite vehemently denying it for years.

“ASADA’s conduct raises serious questions about whether its real intent in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives” such as politics or publicity, wrote U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks.

http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2012/...nce-armstrong/

Even a Federal Judge thinks there is definitely lots of scope to make the "witch hunt" argument.

Cowperson

[Northendzone]

So is sport heck blowing out all of the live strong merchandise.

Brunt had a great take on doping in sport the other morning on the fan.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

“ASADA’s conduct raises serious questions about whether its real intent in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives” such as politics or publicity, wrote U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks.

http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2012/...nce-armstrong/

Even a Federal Judge thinks there is definitely lots of scope to make the "witch hunt" argument.

Cowperson

So, because of ASADA's motives, it doesn't matter that ASADA apparently finally have the goods on him in the form of teammates who lived alongside him day to day through his career reluctantly testifying that he was cheating?

Hypothetically, if Eliot Ness had been going after Capone in order to gain publicity to fuel a run for public office rather than out of any desire to fight crime, would that have turned the prosecution of Capone for tax evasion a witch hunt?

In my understanding, in a witch hunt the prosecutor has little regard for actual guilt or innocence. Say what you want about their motivation to clean up sport, can there be much doubt that ASADA believes Armstrong is guilty?