Christian Blessing at Public Event: Human Rights Violation?

[pylon]

Live and let live.

As long as they aren't offended that I don't pray before a meal, I won't be offended if they do. I will just bow my head and be respectful.

What a stupid thing to complain about, when there are so many other things that could use media attention besides this joke.

[afc wimbledon]

I suppose the obvious thing to do is bring in a satanist and a few naked virgins, or at least what passes for a virgin in Saskatoon, to invoke Belezabub's blessing before the next meal and see if everyone is cool with that.




'Every third Tuesday is my turn, check the notice board, its quite clear'

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by photon

Or rather Jesus happens to be a deity of a subset of the population.

If someone prayed to Santa, then everyone would be equally confused and/or left out so there's no marginalization going on, no human rights claim.

The Santa equivalence only works from the perspective of a non-believer, because all imaginary beings are imaginary to a non-believer.

For a believer the Santa equivalence doesn't work because a different religion still believes in god(s), so promoting Yahweh over Allah/Shiva/Odin/Wotan isn't the same.

Good angle though, I like it when someone brings up really a different way of looking at it.

Off topic a bit but I remember when very young, my dad told me there was no Santa. I felt liberated and a little proud that I'd been let in on an adult secret and intuitively I knew it was true. The thing is that there really is a St. Nicholas it's just that he has little relationship to the modern day cultural myth.

Is it that there really is a god but he has little relationship to the modern cultural myth perpetuated by various religions?

Myself, I don't like it when various religious people start evangelizing to a captive audience but if they stick to the Lord's Prayer, I'm good with that.

[transplant99]

It boggles the mind what it is that people complain about anymore.

Someone says a prayer...and someone else feels violated by it? HOW? If you dont believe in what the guy is saying or who/what he is saying it too, how in the hell can you be offended by it whatsoever?

More to the point in what completely nonsensical world can it be considered a "human rights" violation...what basic human right was violated? No one was harmed in any way, shape or form....no one.

Ugh....this crap is just such a waste of time and resources.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GGG

I agree that a believer could have his rights violated but the atheist in this case who is claiming his rights were violated can't. To him at most this was a bunch of words he had to wait patiently thought until it was over. So maybe a failure of Separation of Church and State but not a human rights violation.

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the separation of church and state complaint would fall into a human rights violation in terms of how the complaint is brought, which is why I think this is more a case of the label not fitting the issue more than anything.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by valo403

I may be mistaken, but I believe that the separation of church and state complaint would fall into a human rights violation in terms of how the complaint is brought, which is why I think this is more a case of the label not fitting the issue more than anything.

The problem is that the human rights commission do not need to meet the burden of the courts system so stuff like this could actually be heard.

Under actual law the only crime could be considered Hate Speech but under the HRC if you get your feelings hurt some how your rights are violated. Getting rid of the HRC and leaving it to the courts to apply the laws would eliminate these frivolous types of claims.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

The problem is that the human rights commission do not need to meet the burden of the courts system so stuff like this could actually be heard.

Under actual law the only crime could be considered Hate Speech but under the HRC if you get your feelings hurt some how your rights are violated. Getting rid of the HRC and leaving it to the courts to apply the laws would eliminate these frivolous types of claims.

The Human Rights Code is law. It is legislation like any other legislation. I'm not sure what distinction you're drawing (except that complaints under the Code are first heard by an administrative tribunal [hardly unique].)

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GGG

The problem is that the human rights commission do not need to meet the burden of the courts system so stuff like this could actually be heard.

Under actual law the only crime could be considered Hate Speech but under the HRC if you get your feelings hurt some how your rights are violated. Getting rid of the HRC and leaving it to the courts to apply the laws would eliminate these frivolous types of claims.

Agree completely, the HRC is a very bizarre creation.

I think there'd be a credible claim under the Charter as well though, this is a pretty clear case of a state actor advancing a particular religion and while the Charter doesn't go as far in prohibiting that as the US Constitution does I think you'd at least get yourself in the door.

[zuluking]

The HRC has to cover too much territory. We would be well-served by spinning off a HFC (Hurt Feelings Commission) to administer to all the hurt feelings that people suffer. Maybe get Judge Judy to preside.

[saskflames69]

it strikes again

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/life/G...276/story.html

[GGG]

Originally Posted by saskflames96

it strikes again

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/life/G...276/story.html

And it also shows tHe difference between what looks like a hate crime and getting hurt feelings over hearing a prayer. If this kid made a complaint to the HRC then I think he has a case as he was harassed as a result of his lack of belief.

Being attacked because of what you believe: human rights violation
Listening to others practice their beliefs: not a hate crime

[Thor]

Why is it so hard to keep the public space free of religion, why should anyone who isnt religious have to listen to it.

Is the TV, Radio, churches, and the internet not enough for that?

[saskflames69]

I dunno man, but as someone who attends a Catholic High School sometimes I wish they would give it a rest too.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

Being attacked because of what you believe: human rights violation
Listening to others practice their beliefs: not a hate crime

Being coerced to adopt religion: infringement of Charter-protected right.

EDIT: Obviously in the case of Christian grace said by a public official at a roast beef dinner, we are talking about the most benign type of coercion possible, but I still think its worth discussing (and trying to eliminate.)