I was once on the same plane as the dog from Frasier.
At first I thought it was so cool. He had his own seat in first class and everything. Then I realized that this dog had made more money in his life than I will make during mine. Then I was sad.
True story.
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Glad I'm not arguing for that reason then - my official position on this is to put pets and small children in the cargo area. However, your initial response to "move the person with allergies away from the service dog" is a complete crock if that same solution cannot be applied to the same sentence without the word "service" in it. I mean, if it's as easy as moving the person and the dog as far away from each other as possible within the same cabin, then why not?
Of course I can see the difference between a service dog and 'random family dog'. What I do not understand is how a solution that works for one dog does not apparently work for the other dog.
Why distinguish between service dogs and regular dogs in any situation then? By your logic, people should be able to take their pets into restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters, hospitals, etc. since the inconvenience for others is apparently the same regardless of whether its a service dog or not.
You're trying to create a black and white issue where there isn't one. What if moving the allergy sufferer only slightly alleviates their symptoms and they still have a miserable flight due to the animal? Should they be forced to incur that due to the whim of a pet owner? What if the allergy sufferer doesn't even notice the pet until they're in the air and they begin to suffer symptoms. Should people be playing musical chairs at 30,000 feet to accommodate a pet owner?
And really, none of this matters since there are laws in place to ensure that people with service dogs are accommodated; no such laws exist for someone who can't be bothered to put their dog in cargo or put it in a kennel. It's really as simple as that. Service dogs are considered a special case and are given special privileges that other dogs do not enjoy all the time because they serve a specific function.
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Wow, I didn't think this issue would be discussed as much as it has been. Perhaps the Mods can put it to a poll?
Should passengers be able to bring their pets (under a certain size) onboard with them on airplanes?
a. No, pets should be transported below in the cargo hold
b. Yes, but passengers with pets should be ready accommodate their fellow passengers (be asked to be moved to another seat, sit further back in the plane, added expense)
c. Yes, and their pet should be treated like any other carry on item (no special status)
Why distinguish between service dogs and regular dogs in any situation then? By your logic, people should be able to take their pets into restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters, hospitals, etc. since the inconvenience for others is apparently the same regardless of whether its a service dog or not.
You're trying to create a black and white issue where there isn't one. What if moving the allergy sufferer only slightly alleviates their symptoms and they still have a miserable flight due to the animal? Should they be forced to incur that due to the whim of a pet owner? What if the allergy sufferer doesn't even notice the pet until they're in the air and they begin to suffer symptoms. Should people be playing musical chairs at 30,000 feet to accommodate a pet owner?
And really, none of this matters since there are laws in place to ensure that people with service dogs are accommodated; no such laws exist for someone who can't be bothered to put their dog in cargo or put it in a kennel. It's really as simple as that. Service dogs are considered a special case and are given special privileges that other dogs do not enjoy all the time because they serve a specific function.
The first bolded portion is a different argument from the one made before, and I agree that if simply sitting apart doesn't solve the problem then the difference between service and regular pets comes into play. However, if all it takes is 10 rows of separation there's really no reason to differentiate based on the animals role. The end result is the same. As to the whole mid-flight discovery issue, if that's a real concern limit animals to 1 or 2 rows and allow people with allergies to choose seats at the other end of the plane.
Interesting that you cite laws while at the same time using the slippery slope type argument as to animals in hospitals and restaurants. The reason animals aren't allowed in many of those places is the presence of laws, be they health department or sanitation code laws. No such laws exist in this case, and airlines have a revenue stream to protect or dispose of depending on what their customers desire. I imagine given a similar situation you'd find restaurants that would allow dogs in some places, I know of one near my apartment that would almost certainly do so. So yes, laws exist specifically to accomodate service dogs, but that's only part of the story. The presence of a revenue stream means just as much, and expecting airlines to do away with it is unrealistic assuming it's not outweighed by other concerns.
I was once on the same plane as the dog from Frasier.
At first I thought it was so cool. He had his own seat in first class and everything. Then I realized that this dog had made more money in his life than I will make during mine. Then I was sad.
True story.
If it makes you happier, that dog is dead. You're still living a long, unfullfilled life!
This seems to come up every year or so, and it'll be treated as it is, a non-issue. For airlines, its an easy $50+ per person for providing no extra service except cancelling out one of your carry-on luggage items and placing you in the least desirable seats on the plane.
Furthermore, it avoids needless payouts for animal deaths from cargo hold complications. Claims of indemnity only go so far and are expensive for the airline to defend.
People are going piss and moan about it, but the reality is, the air in an airplane cabin is heavily filtered. Its not stale, unfiltered recycled air like some urban legends might say. Pets are almost always placed in the back row beside the bathroom where the air is filtered out of the cabin.
I've had to travel with my cat a couple times on planes, and its a pain in the ass. Within 48 hours of booking your flight, you have to register the pet, so they can flag the flight, and limit the number of pets on the plane.
I only do it because home is 3000kms away, and driving in the winter isn't ideal. Kennels are prohibitively expensive and havens for disease. Hopefully I only have to do it once more in my life in the next year. Responsible pet owners ensure their carrier is clean, the pet is lightly sedated with a vet approved sedative, and they only remove the pet for security screening. Most people are totally unaware that there's a live animal in my duffel bag carrier... its a pretty common occurrence. The staff run through the requirements every time, and they're pretty strict.
I never had anyone complain about my cat... worst thing I've ever had was someone grumble slightly because my girlfriend was seated two rows ahead, and I asked him to switch with her in case the cat was a bother and so we could be together. He realized once he got to her seat that the seats on this plane can recline in every row except the last row (pet row) and gave us the thumbs up.
The onus of protection is on the allergy sufferer. If you have a serious allergy to anything, and you're not informing the airline and packing proper medication, you're a fool for placing that much trust in the average person. Protocol is to put you in the front few rows closest to the fresh air intake (and to a medical kit).
If the CSAs know, they'll make arrangements before you board, and your hinderance will be minimal. If you have an extremely severe allergy, they'll likely move one of us to another flight at their expense. If you aren't proactive, you're part of the problem and you're inconveniencing the people who have to move to accomodate you. As the pet carrier, I already made myself known, and they already made arrangements to minimize my interference. Its not like we just show up with Fido.
Truth is, allergy sufferers really aren't a consideration to the average person. People slather on perfume, smoke a pack of cigarettes, carry their pets, arrive dirty, and eat peanuts. Unless you require people to strip down, shower, and wear airline scrubs on the planes, that is NEVER going to change regardless of regulations. If you have an allergy to anything... anything with dozens of self-centered humans is going to be a lousy place to be.
Even if I have to leave my cat at home, I am going to have dander and hair clinging to my clothing, and I, like 99.9% of the population are not going to take precautions to prevent the hair/dander from going airborne. If you're badly allergic to cats/dogs, I will likely trigger some level of reaction. Just like peanut allergy guy will always have to watch carefully for some passenger to pull a peanut product out of their carry-on for a snack. In my case, just like Joe Camel beside me doesn't care that I am allergic to cigarette smoke, and the particulates on his clothing from the pack of smokes he inhaled that cause him to stink are giving me a headache, nasal congestion and itchy eyes. Its just the unfortunate reality of being around lots of people. You're probably more likely to catch a virus of sorts waiting for your plane at the airport.
Last edited by Thunderball; 08-24-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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I would love to have one debate on CP about dogs without somebody throwing out the ridiculous small-children comparison.
Not to derail, but last week I had two consecutive days where somebody without kids told me that having a dog was "just like" having a child. I'm pretty sure I physically shuttered a little, but I succeeded in not saying anything.
Caught me! no but really it was an identical bag and I was lil flustered and angry about being hassled by customs on Christmas eve ( or maybe Dec23rd I cant remember) so I wasnt paying enough attention and just grabbed the bag and went on my way. Nothing missing from the story!
the one thing missing is you tried on the panties before you contacted her!!!
Not to derail, but last week I had two consecutive days where somebody without kids told me that having a dog was "just like" having a child. I'm pretty sure I physically shuttered a little, but I succeeded in not saying anything.
Haha yeah I cringe when I hear that as well.
Unfortunately for me, I can't say anything because I remember somebody telling me a story about their kid once before I had kids, and I tried to one up them with a story about my cat. At that time, I really thought pet ownership and being a parent were basically the same thing.
After my first kid was born, as you may recall, I traded that cat for a Hibachi and have never looked back.
First I can't have complimentary peanuts because some tool beside me might be allergic. Now I can't fly with Mr. Whiskers? When does it end?
People with allergies just need to suck it up or do us all a favor and get culled from society so the rest of us can live normal peanut-eating lives with our pets at 30,000 feet.
Peanut allergies were infrequent 20, 30, 50, or 100 years ago because you were dead if you had the allergy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06
First I can't have complimentary peanuts because some tool beside me might be allergic. Now I can't fly with Mr. Whiskers? When does it end?
People with allergies just need to suck it up or do us all a favor and get culled from society so the rest of us can live normal peanut-eating lives with our pets at 30,000 feet.
Passengers applaud as boy removed from plane for allergies
"He began to get very itchy and he was scratching all over. He started to get hives, so we informed the flight attendant who informed us that there's dogs on every flight and just smirked, which minimized his experience for me," said Fabian.
The allergic reaction delayed take off, and soon the family was told they'd have to deboard.
"We understood. They helped us off the plane, but as we gathered our stuff the people toward the back of the plane clapped," said Fabian.
What passengers on the flight didn't know is the trip to Bellingham was on a bucket list. It was a chance to visit family for a very important reason.
"My dad is sick with stage four throat cancer," said Giovanni.
Alvarado's cancer is terminal and with time running out, the trip was supposed to be a special one.
Man that's frigging brutal. I would expect humans to be more of a priority than an animal unless it was someone's service dog.
I used to do baggage for an airline when in university and the amount of stress an animal is under flying in the pit is terrible. Either they are stressed out bad or drugged up. I would advise against people taking their pets on vacation. If you are moving then you should be couriering the pet to your destination and not shipping them on a commercial flight.
I once saw a bull mastiff who was so scared he chewed a head size hole in a hard plastic/metal grate cage and there was blood everywhere.
They'll bust their teeth and jaws trying to get out of their crates. We never fly with our dog because you just don't know if they can handle it.
Word. The baggage handlers mistreating the dogs is the least of your concerns. If you're one of those spawns of Satan who pack all your stuff in a duck taped cardboard box going to Manila, that's when you need to worry about your stuff getting thrown around.
When I first started working the ramp for WestJet - opened the hold on a flight in to Edmonton from Halifax - that dog had been trying to chew through his kennel for 5 hours. Blood and teeth everywhere. A lot come in with blood on their noses from just ramming their faces against the kennel.
Cats are chill. They'll just bury themselves in their blanket and not move. A quick poke to make sure they're alive and away ya go.
