08-08-2011, 09:02 PM
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#81
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sydney, NSfW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatso
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OK here's another one: Poor and oppressed Carribean and African youth has no other choice but to resort to violent rioting and looting because the racist UK police won't let them deal drugs and guns in peace.
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08-08-2011, 09:27 PM
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#82
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatso
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It is not bigotry to observe the obvious fact that when you rapidly mix large populations of various religious/cultural creeds, that tension will eventually come of it. Humans are tribal in nature......take off your PC alarmist goggles for a minute....
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08-08-2011, 11:17 PM
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#84
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Van City - Main St.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
It is not bigotry to observe the obvious fact that when you rapidly mix large populations of various religious/cultural creeds, that tension will eventually come of it. Humans are tribal in nature......take off your PC alarmist goggles for a minute....
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What does that have to do with what happened here?
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08-09-2011, 03:01 AM
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#85
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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This thread is lacking in analysis, as if no one actually cares about the possible reasons. Maybe they don't. In any case, here's some thoughts.
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...j9oMJR.twitter
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LONDON -- As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"
The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."
Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.
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I'll be the first to admit that some of the views on the reasons this next blog offers are, at least on the surface, in conflict with each other. I don't see them as conflicting, but you make up your own minds.
http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08...of-london.html
Quote:
Violence is rarely mindless. The politics of a burning building, a smashed-in shop or a young man shot by police may be obscured even to those who lit the rags or fired the gun, but the politics are there.
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Quote:
Months of conjecture will follow these riots. Already, the internet is teeming with racist vitriol and wild speculation. The truth is that very few people know why this is happening. They don’t know, because they were not watching these communities. Nobody has been watching Tottenham since the television cameras drifted away after the Broadwater Farm riots of 1985. Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping-and-searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure and certain knowledge that after decades of being ignored and marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news.
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Quote:
Riots are about power, and they are about catharsis. They are not about poor parenting, or youth services being cut, or any of the other snap explanations that media pundits have been trotting out: structural inequalities, as a friend of mine remarked today, are not solved by a few pool tables. People riot because it makes them feel powerful, even if only for a night. People riot because they have spent their whole lives being told that they are good for nothing, and they realise that together they can do anything – literally, anything at all. People to whom respect has never been shown riot because they feel they have little reason to show respect themselves, and it spreads like fire on a warm summer night.
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Quote:
The so-called leaders who have taken three solid days to return from their foreign holidays to a country in flames did not anticipate this. The people running Britain had absolutely no clue how desperate things had become. They thought that after thirty years of soaring inequality, in the middle of a recession, they could take away the last little things that gave people hope, the benefits, the jobs, the possibility of higher education, the support structures, and nothing would happen.
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08-09-2011, 05:48 AM
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#86
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
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Well that was an interesting night. Stayed up until 2am nervously until it was obvious that things had quieted down enough to go to bed.
Once dark fell crowds of shady looking 'kids' (I'd say generally aged 15-25) started to congregate up and down my street, where we had just moved into a top floor flat on Saturday. There was a certain buzz in the air and although they pulled their hoods over their heads it seemed that they were waiting for something to happen to kick it all off.
Soon a police presence made itself known and when this group of 15 kids were standing shadily directly below our windows a bus full of cops pulled over to stop & search them. Finding nothing they just carried on their way.
It seemed inevitable that this mob of kids, many of whom were texting on their blackberries and talking on their phones, would ransack one of the many shops on my street as they seemed to be sizing up the three shoe stores, the Sainsbury's (booze), the Boots (drugs), and the Snappy Snaps (cameras).
The shop below our flat is a hair salon which while not particularly good for looting had a great big plate glass window that could look fun/easy to smash and since people were lighting random fires around town we had a bit of an irrational fear that if they broke in they could set our building ablaze.
But none of that happened, at least not in our stretch of the road, because we had a stronger police presence in Fulham than was reported in many other places in London. At one point we had a line of riot police sweep down the street. One alarming thing was to see four police cars/buses speeding down our road with lights and sirens in one direction and less than a minute later to see the same number going back in the other direction at high speed (I don't know if they were the same ones or different).
We could smell smoke in the air and today there are reports that there were fires just up our road at the council flats and that police had faced a hail of missiles up there. Also, right around the corner from us, there was a burned out car at Fulham Broadway. There are also stories of muggings and robberies in the neighbourhood (a Michelin-starred restaurant in Notting Hill got looted and all the diners robbed). On our street things seemed to get eerily quiet at about 2am and that was about it for the night.
Clapham Junction, where I travel through every day, is completely trashed--the department store lay in ruins and the costume shop where I bought my Halloween outfit last year has been burned down.
A friend of ours in Woolwich was in tears all night as it was struck really hard with random fires all over the place. She was worried her block of flats would be burned down.
I've never experienced anything like it. It's real tragedy.
I will say though that the people doing this, at least in my area, have in more in common in terms of socio-economic status rather than race. There were plenty of chavvy white losers shouting at the police and kicking shopfronts on my street. Also there were a number of girls involved as well (I saw one girl cramming a brand new pair of running shoes into a bag). These crowds are just underprivileged kids looking for a good time and maybe some free stuff, there is no lofty political motivation here. They also think they have safety in numbers, that if all of their peers are doing it why not join in.
Anyway, let's hope there is a massive crackdown tonight and that I can go to bed in peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
And, London is Burning, London doesnt possess burning.
/Grammar Nazi.
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Fail.
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08-09-2011, 07:23 AM
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#87
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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More writings with more or less the same views.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ashes-out.html
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The failure of the markets goes hand in hand with human blight. Meanwhile, the view is gaining ground that social democracy, with its safety nets, its costly education and health care for all, is unsustainable in the bleak times ahead. The reality is that it is the only solution.
After the Great Crash, Britain recalibrated, for a time. Income differentials fell, the welfare state was born and skills and growth increased.
That exact model is not replicable, but nor, as Adam Smith recognised, can a well-ordered society ever develop when a sizeable number of its members are miserable and, as a consequence, dangerous.
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08-09-2011, 07:27 AM
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#88
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Lifetime Suspension
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Wow, these minority-centric lootings and riotings are a good way to bring back some good old fashion 1960's, close to-the-surface racism in jolly ole England. I don't think these idiots know that this will likely set back their 'movement' 10+ years.
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08-09-2011, 07:29 AM
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#89
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Franchise Player
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Question for you Icarus...Girlfriend and her family is going to be staying in London for the next couple of days here, I think they are staying by the University of Westminster. Is there a lot of rioting going on close to them? Also are there any touristy areas they should avoid due to the rioting?
Much appreciated!
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08-09-2011, 08:10 AM
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#90
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE SCUD
Wow, these minority-centric lootings and riotings are a good way to bring back some good old fashion 1960's, close to-the-surface racism in jolly ole England. I don't think these idiots know that this will likely set back their 'movement' 10+ years.
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There isn't really a movement. I think the whole point of why this is happening is that people are beyond caring about the consequences. Too little to lose.
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08-09-2011, 08:11 AM
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#91
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15
Question for you Icarus...Girlfriend and her family is going to be staying in London for the next couple of days here, I think they are staying by the University of Westminster. Is there a lot of rioting going on close to them? Also are there any touristy areas they should avoid due to the rioting?
Much appreciated!
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Well first of all I really hope the authorities have done enough preparation to start seriously cracking down, so my expectation is that the worst is over.
But if it lingers, they should be fine in the central areas. It's more along the periphery where you have low cost housing estates (although there are estates in all parts of London--even Belgravia and a huge one in Chelsea) that you see most of the mayhem.
It's all unpredictable but I'm pretty sure they'll be fine and might not even notice anything.
Unless they're staying near the Harrow campus of the University of Westminster...
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08-09-2011, 08:19 AM
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#93
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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I'm sure the irony isnt lost on the green revolutionaries.
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08-09-2011, 08:27 AM
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#94
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: England
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Looking at the pictures coming out of the looters they all appear to be of "The labour generation", brought up to believe that the world owes them a living, there is no need to work hard and get a job as the state will pay for you to live. That tap has been turned off but still they continue to take without giving anything back.
On a side note: Barnet Flame, and any other flames fans caught up in this I hope you, your firends and family are all ok.
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08-09-2011, 08:44 AM
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#95
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Jordan!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
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Rubber bullets.. how do you use them??
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08-09-2011, 08:45 AM
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#96
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
It is not bigotry to observe the obvious fact that when you rapidly mix large populations of various religious/cultural creeds, that tension will eventually come of it. Humans are tribal in nature......take off your PC alarmist goggles for a minute....
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Ha ha ha... look who shows up like clockwork - one of the other pretenders to the throne.
My view on it is that the police and army should get in there and crack these bozos in the head ASAP. Your view appears to be that there is an some irrepressible and deep-seated cultural and genetic conflict that will guide current and future behaviour. Not sure who's wearing the alarmist goggles. If it is me, you might want to borrow them.. they'll go well with the tinfoil hat you typically sport.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty
OK here's another one: Poor and oppressed Carribean and African youth has no other choice but to resort to violent rioting and looting because the racist UK police won't let them deal drugs and guns in peace.
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Flame of Bigotry, I agree that a large percentage of the rioters are criminals of Caribbean and African descent. But, logically, their identifying characteristic is that of "criminal" not "race". After all, it's not every person of Caribbean and African descent who is rioting, and it's not only people of Caribbean and African descent who are rioting. But, of course, a bigot probably isn't going to think logically, are they?
In any event, that wasn't your original post was it? This was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty
Diversity makes us stronger.
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I assume you were being sarcastic (and my apologies if you were being sincere and view diversity as a social benefit) and came through with a HOZ-esque broad swipe against diversity in response to a particularized event. That kind of racialized broad generalizing and oversimplification sure looks like bigotry to me.
__________________
The great CP is in dire need of prunes! 
"That's because the productive part of society is adverse to giving up all their wealth so you libs can conduct your social experiments. Experience tells us your a bunch of snake oil salesman...Sucks to be you." ~Calgaryborn 12/06/09 keeping it really stupid!
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08-09-2011, 08:47 AM
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#97
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKflames
Looking at the pictures coming out of the looters they all appear to be of "The labour generation", brought up to believe that the world owes them a living, there is no need to work hard and get a job as the state will pay for you to live. That tap has been turned off but still they continue to take without giving anything back.
On a side note: Barnet Flame, and any other flames fans caught up in this I hope you, your firends and family are all ok.
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You can tell all this by just looking at some pictures of people in hoods?
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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08-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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#98
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKflames
Looking at the pictures coming out of the looters they all appear to be of "The labour generation", brought up to believe that the world owes them a living, there is no need to work hard and get a job as the state will pay for you to live. That tap has been turned off but still they continue to take without giving anything back.
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The kids these days. Now there's an argument that never goes old.
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08-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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#99
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
It is not bigotry to observe the obvious fact that when you rapidly mix large populations of various religious/cultural creeds, that tension will eventually come of it. Humans are tribal in nature......take off your PC alarmist goggles for a minute....
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Is it not just human nature for tensions to rise eventually? Humans are tribal in nature. I bet in most places people drank milk maybe it is milk.
How do you explain historical and modern day riots during the Arab spring, China, Chile, France. Riots happen for various reasons and they usually start when times are tough.
Your comment reminds me when people would blame porn for crime. Everybody has porn including people who don't commit crimes.
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08-09-2011, 09:06 AM
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#100
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Franchise Player
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there are some stories going around the UK about vigilante groups who took on rioters last night
if it's true, absolute heroes
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