Leaky Condo: $78K - $200K assessment (split from the Realtor 1 subforum)

[4X4]

The single biggest problem with construction these days is building envelope and moisture control. Nobody cares about things like shoddy hardwood, because that can be fixed for a nominal price, and has zero effect on structural integrity.
WATER is what is simultaneously destroying homesteads and the life savings of home owners, so maybe there needs to be another layer of inspection. Another inspector that doesn't care about framing or electrical or plumbing... An inspector that inspects vapor barriers, proper construction of rim joists, window and door installation, stucco... Those are the points of entry for water, and water is what falls out of the sky and is the main culprit for most of these nightmares.

Take the moisture control responsibility off of the shoulders of the pre board inspector, and put it in the hands of someone who focuses solely on that, and these problems will stop manifesting themselves a couple of years down the road. I kid you not.

[Slava]

Can I just ask a dumb question of guys like 4x4 and SportsJunky (amongst others) who know about these things? Why do these problems happen so often for condos but not for other buildings? From the outside, as a casual observer, I just don't understand why others aren't facing these issues? (maybe they are and it's not reported though?)

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Slava

Can I just ask a dumb question of guys like 4x4 and SportsJunky (amongst others) who know about these things? Why do these problems happen so often for condos but not for other buildings? From the outside, as a casual observer, I just don't understand why others aren't facing these issues? (maybe they are and it's not reported though?)

That's not a dumb question, it's a great question. And off the top of my head, I really don't know the answer. I've never built anything bigger than a fourplex, so I'm not sure what the big difference is with the bigger multifamily units.
I suppose it could have something to do with prices being ground down to the point where the various crews are just not putting in the effort to do a job properly, simply because they *need* to get on to the next job to stay profitable, but that's just a guess.

I'm just as interested as you are to hear an educated answer.

[killer_carlson]

honestly, there is so much to go through to answer some of the questions in this thread, but it doesn't lend itself well to doing through this style of communication.

The province will be doing an online survey soon of changes to the Condominium Property Act. At a minimum, people should be doing that. What would be better would be to pick up a pen and write a note to their MLA in addiition

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Slava

Can I just ask a dumb question of guys like 4x4 and SportsJunky (amongst others) who know about these things? Why do these problems happen so often for condos but not for other buildings? From the outside, as a casual observer, I just don't understand why others aren't facing these issues? (maybe they are and it's not reported though?)

Different building code requirements for the different building types causes some of the discrepancy between a lot of bigger commercial, and residential buildings.
For example, if a residential building is 4 floors or less (I believe (I don't have my building code in front of me)), the entire building can be wood frame construction.
Other times, it's developers either cutting corners to save costs, and doing the absolute code minimum (which a lot of times, is barely suitable).
Finally, during the building boom, around the time this building was constructed, there was a huge boom in construction jobs, meaning a lot of developers had trouble securing quality sub-contractors and were under major time crunches.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

(maybe they are and it's not reported though?)

I think this is at least part of it. I knew someone who had a brand new house built in Edmonton, and had to redo the siding and eaves ~2 years after it was built because of water damage.

[normtwofinger]

Being someone who has worked on condos like these, I think I can offer some insight. A lot of these developers are extremely crooked. I worked on many Pointe of View projects, as well as other developments. As with any business, their main goal is the most profit in the shortest amount of time possible, by any means necessary. This includes cutting corners on materials, building methods, selecting the lowest contractor's bid, and even not paying the trades.

By selecting the lowest bids, this forces contractors to hire the cheapest labour available. These workers are the lowest of the low, including drug addicts, alcoholics, and ex felons or current felons. These workers are doing drugs and drinking on the job. I myself have witnessed this many times. Having this grade of workers really makes the quality of construction go down the toilet.

I won't go into naming specific buildings, but if anyone wants to know they can PM me. There was one building, that at the time of construction, already had black mold in the walls and was just covered up not to be talked about again. I'm sure it will be in the news in the next 5 years.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Being someone who has worked on condos like these, I think I can offer some insight. A lot of these developers are extremely crooked. I worked on many Pointe of View projects, as well as other developments. As with any business, their main goal is the most profit in the shortest amount of time possible, by any means necessary. This includes cutting corners on materials, building methods, selecting the lowest contractor's bid, and even not paying the trades.

You've nailed it right there, but it wouldn't be fair to extrapolate your experiences with them to most other developers.
There's a lot of quality developers out there too, but Calgary is still fairly infantile in the condo world and the bad one's haven't been forced out though natural selection yet.
More developers moving in from Vancouver & Toronto should increase the overall quality of the industry and push competition standards higher.

Buyers need to take some responsibility too. Every time people rush to cheep low quality, "affordable" condos like University City or Pointe of View, they should be asking why is it so cheep?

I agree with the idea of extra inspectors specific to building envelope. Extending the warranty on envelopes to 5 years should be done as well.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

More developers moving in from Vancouver & Toronto should increase the overall quality of the industry and push competition standards higher.

Because Vancouver has never had their share of leaky, substandard condos

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Shades

Because Vancouver has never had their share of leaky, substandard condos

Nice twisting of my words.

Actually, it's because Vancouver has had so many leaky condos.
People there have learned from it, and even your average first time buyer is quite aware and cautious about leaky condos.

Most of Vancouver's leaky condos were built in the 90's, and the painful learning process has left Vancouver with changed building codes that don't allow for that type of construction, filtered out many poor developers & the most comprehensive new home warranty on North America.

I'm not talking about BC's version of Pointe of View coming over, I'm referring to companies like Bosa, Cressey & Grosvenor who have developments upcoming in Calgary and very strong reputations.

[afc wimbledon]

Bossa has had its fair share of problems.

[MRCboicgy]

Doesn't Pointe of View have a new name now?

[normtwofinger]

^not sure. I haven't worked on their sites for a while. The guy has been run out of Edmonton, should be run out of Calgary too.

[afc wimbledon]

I can remember driving past a smaller condo being built in Vancouver, just a low rise 20 unit type development and realising the crew were instaling the tyveck sheets the wrong way round, all the dupont tyveck printing were on back to front, it occured to me that was going to cost someone.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Doesn't Pointe of View have a new name now?

Carlile Group