Canada Post Strike

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by 4X4

It's not simple, but it's not complicated enough that people that work there should feel like they're entitled to a job even if the company is slowly going out of business.

I find this attitude a lot in most jobs that people work, honestly. It seems to be more prevalent in union shops, but it seems in general to me that most folks feel that they are indeed, "owed" their job.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I find this attitude a lot in most jobs that people work, honestly. It seems to be more prevalent in union shops, but it seems in general to me that most folks feel that they are indeed, "owed" their job.

I think you're right and it's a disturbing mindset.

Its a large part of why the USPS is in the situation we are in now.

[PeteLFan]

If you have something coming priority courier for Wednesday, what happens to that?

[JustAnotherGuy]

I have faith that Mr Harper will step in a make sure our country's mail gets delivered.

[Sr. Mints]

My only experience with a union was when I worked at Safeway when I was 16-17. They took $9 off every paycheck, and I was paid weekly. That really sucked when you worked 15-20 hours a week and were making around $7/hr. I would not have known I was in a union if it weren't for the pay deductions.

[fleudian]

I have a package coming from the states via USPS. Is it true that USPS hands off their deliveries to Canada Post once they're in the country?

[ken0042]

That is correct. USPS is the postal service in the United States; Canada Post is the postal service here.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

My only experience with a union was when I worked at Safeway when I was 16-17. They took $9 off every paycheck, and I was paid weekly. That really sucked when you worked 15-20 hours a week and were making around $7/hr. I would not have known I was in a union if it weren't for the pay deductions.

That's where Unions are typically two faced. They tend to preach that they look after some of the weekest employees but it is usually terms, part-time employees and casuals that always get fed to the fishes first.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

#1) I read somewhere that package delivery, such as Purolator, now constitutes about half of Canada Post's revenue now as letter mail has been replaced by electronic mail. And I don't see package delivery disappearing anytime soon, unless you just patented a Star Trek-esque transporter.

#2) My brother was never unionized and has been laid off twice. My mother was never unionized and was laid off 3 times. My father was unionized and was never laid off. I am unionized and have never been laid off. I have been offered more money to work elsewhere, but I stay where I am because we are unionized and the union has done well at protecting our job security.

#3) I have learned that the non-unionized private sector doesn't work perfectly. As in the case of my brother and my mother, two of the hardest working people on the planet, sometimes it is the best people that get screwed over by short-sighted managers. I could work my ass off for a company and still get the short end of the stick. The only time I would ever consider leaving my current job would be to start my own business.... given what I've seen and experienced I would never go back to a non-unionized shop and be at the mercy of a Dilbert-pointy-haired-boss's every whim.

First bold, you have a really coloured opinion because of who they are.

Second bold, yeah, except this really isn't true.

With Labour standards and Provincial Human Rights councils, unions are all but becoming redundant. There are plenty of resources you can use against your employer now, even if you aren't unionized.

Unions for the most part protect the weak and throw everybody but the long-term, senior employees under the bus. They do not think about the long term health of the companies in general.

[Devils'Advocate]

First, I would say that even if they were not related. My brother can often be found working 48 hours straight to meet ridiculous deadlines. My mother shows up for work 2 hours ahead of time to do the work others are supposed to be doing because she knows that if she doesn't do it, it won't get done. You can believe I am lying... I don't care. But I stand by my assessment.

Second, going through labour boards and lawyers is a giant hassle and usually fruitless. When I worked for a consulting company we were told that we all had to do 15 hours of mandatory overtime a week. The guy in the cubicle next to me was taking care of his dying mother and he just didn't have the time so he talked the team lead and she said he was exempted. That afternoon the team lead was let go. She had already invited the team over to her place for a party that weekend and she said she didn't want to cancel as it would give her a chance to say goodbye to everyone. She said she was told she was being let go because "she wasn't being a team player; she didn't always have the company's best interests at heart; she was insubordinate to the upper management." We asked if she was going to fight it since she was one of, if not THE, best team leads we had. She said she started looking at lodging a wrongful dismissal case, but the company didn't violate her human rights nor did it breach the Employment Standards Act. In addition, from her readings the proceedings are too slow, take up a lot of time and can be expensive, particularly if you need to hire your own council. Since she was a damn good team lead, she said she was just going to look elsewhere for a job. And that's the case for most people... they don't have the support to fight the company, so they just find another position.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Must real hard driving a big truck, stopping, getting out, putting all the mail in the boxes. Real difficult job.

What if you have packages that are coming, if they go on strike, does it go on holding somewhere?

Try it. I dare you.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Second, going through labour boards and lawyers is a giant hassle and usually fruitless. When I worked for a consulting company we were told that we all had to do 15 hours of mandatory overtime a week. The guy in the cubicle next to me was taking care of his dying mother and he just didn't have the time so he talked the team lead and she said he was exempted. That afternoon the team lead was let go. She had already invited the team over to her place for a party that weekend and she said she didn't want to cancel as it would give her a chance to say goodbye to everyone. She said she was told she was being let go because "she wasn't being a team player; she didn't always have the company's best interests at heart; she was insubordinate to the upper management." We asked if she was going to fight it since she was one of, if not THE, best team leads we had. She said she started looking at lodging a wrongful dismissal case, but the company didn't violate her human rights nor did it breach the Employment Standards Act. In addition, from her readings the proceedings are too slow, take up a lot of time and can be expensive, particularly if you need to hire your own council. Since she was a damn good team lead, she said she was just going to look elsewhere for a job. And that's the case for most people... they don't have the support to fight the company, so they just find another position.

Once the lawyers requested her employee file and found that she was an excellent employee, had solid annual reviews, with no documented discipline on file, the insubordination claims would quickly fall apart leaving the company liable for damages.

If she did have a case, there is a very good chance the company would try very hard to settle with her.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

First, I would say that even if they were not related. My brother can often be found working 48 hours straight to meet ridiculous deadlines. My mother shows up for work 2 hours ahead of time to do the work others are supposed to be doing because she knows that if she doesn't do it, it won't get done. You can believe I am lying... I don't care. But I stand by my assessment.

Not all hours worked are equal among different employees. I know a guy who came home at midnight everynight during deadline times at work. He's the most inefficient person I know and that's why he's there until midnight every night.

http://www.despair.com/dysfunction.html

Conversely I know very lazy people who are brilliant enough to be worth more to a company than hardworking ineffcient people. Worth is measured in dollars not sweat.

Seriously, work isn't a place that's supposed to hold your hand and sustain you throughout your life. You aren't entiltled to your job and numerous things outside of your control from business mergers, the economy, to straight up bad managers (to which the company's demise and the ensuing laying off of employees is actually capitalism's way of dealing with the driftwood) can derail employment, that's why governments have EI and why people should have emergency savings. That's life in the big city bubs. The alternative is government run day care for adults and a crumbling standard of living.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Once the lawyers requested her employee file and found that she was an excellent employee, had solid annual reviews, with no documented discipline on file, the insubordination claims would quickly fall apart leaving the company liable for damages.

If she did have a case, there is a very good chance the company would try very hard to settle with her.

Also, there's scores of hungry employment lawyers that would do all the hand holding throughout the process if there's a likely settlement.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Once the lawyers requested her employee file and found that she was an excellent employee, had solid annual reviews, with no documented discipline on file, the insubordination claims would quickly fall apart leaving the company liable for damages.

If she did have a case, there is a very good chance the company would try very hard to settle with her.

(A) This team lead often took the employee side on a situation which pitted employee vs employer, such as the case of the employee with the sick mother. Which is why we would have gone to the wall for her. I think they could have made their case on that alone.

(B) A company can "terminate without cause" to even the best and brightest. To avoid a "wrongful dismissal", a company simply has to tell the person that their services are no longer required.

[MacGruber]

nothing makes me giggle more on the inside that the myth of the invisible hand and market correction that capitalism lovers always speak of. as a disclaimer i like capitalism just fine, just stating an opinion about one part of it.

[Vulcan]

Yeah there are rules and regulations and checks and balances for a reason and unions are just one of the checks and balances. We saw what happened in the States when the rules and regulations went south. How some people can still shoot this blarney and hope to be taken seriously is a wonder.

[Hockey]

As a member of CUPW I must say I am against this strike, mainly because I really can't afford to be going on strike. My wife just went back to work after having a year off on mat leave and we were just starting to get back to normal. I just figure if our union doesn't win that there is nothing we can really do about it, whatever happens happens, im not one to complain about these things. So hopefully things settle quicker then expected. I have been on holiday this past week so I haven't heard much on whats going on.

[HOZ]

Canada Post: Working harder at become more irrelevant!

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

(B) A company can "terminate without cause" to even the best and brightest. To avoid a "wrongful dismissal", a company simply has to tell the person that their services are no longer required.

Except it is a lot more extensive than that. There are provincial standards for severance, but if the employee is considered to be treated unfairly at any point in the process, they can extract quite a bit in punitive damages from their employer. I.E. Not providing them severance pay.

The only way you can avoid paying someone severance is when you fire them with cause.

You're making it sound like in your example the employer fabricated a reason for the termination of employment. The courts don't look very positively on that.

When severing good employees without cause, companies frequently pay a fair bit over the level required by provincial standards so that it is a disincentive to try to take the employer to court.