Police justified in pepper-spraying violent 8 year-old boy?

[Skate around the circle]

They should of never taken the strap out of the schools,I got it in 1st grade and never got it again after that! Learned my lesson so to speak.

[MacGruber]

anyone defending the cops here should go find an 8 year and then give their head a shake. they're small.

if cops cant handle an 8 year old without a taser or pepper spray they shouldn't be cops. wtf are they going to do when something really dangerous comes along? give me a god damn break. AN EIGHT YEAR OLD.

ugh.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

The kid's throwing a tantrum, so I'm assuming his body is reacting accordingly -- raised blood-pressure, intense breathing, etc. Pepper spray could still send a child into a bad respiratory state. That along with the acknowledged spike in blood pressure pepper spray has a tendency to induce.

That's all fine and dandy...but the chances of pepper spray causing any "health risks" as you asked, are virtually zero. The stuff is very much in use because it doesnt have long term effects and is considered very safe as a way to subdue those out of control. This would be confirmed by the fact i just saw the kid interviewed on TV from earlier today and he was just fine.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Do you honestly think an 8 year old boy is capable of taking the life of a full grown adult? Unless he was holding a gun/explosives I doubt it.

Which leads to the age-old question: How many 8 year-olds with sticks do you think you could take on at one time?

[Pinner]

Or, how many cops does it take to handle an 8 yr old with a stick ?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Wow, man. That's kind of cold. It's an eight-year old child you're talking about. He has no idea the gravity of what he is saying.

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Do you honestly think an 8 year old boy is capable of taking the life of a full grown adult? Unless he was holding a gun/explosives I doubt it.

What I think an average 8 year old child is capable of is irrelevant. I can only go based on the facts as stated

1. Two teachers were terrified enough to lock themselves in their room to be away from the boy and called the police because he had a "stick" and threatened to kill them if they came out (why the police were called)

2. These are teachers who work with the child knowing his special needs (as clarified by the mother)

3. The police used pepper spray to subdue the child to calm the situation (the premise of the article).


We're not dealing with an average 8 year old child here, we're dealing with someone who the people that know him, and work with him in a special needs environment said he was enough of a threat that they locked themselves out of the room and called the police to handle the situation.

That's simply not normal.

I'm not in favour of police using pepper spray on children. But what are the alternatives?

• They cannot tazer the child.
• He's enough of a threat that he could seriously harm someone (why else would the teachers lock themselves out?) the officers need to minimize the risk to themselves.
• The officers also have a responsibility to limit harm to the child, I've never been trained in any police take down procedures, but I'm willing to bet that they aren't trained on how to limit their force to tackle an 8 year old, they're trained for the drunk 23 year olds outside the bar. So they can't physically disarm & restrain him.
• They can't taze, they can't tackle

This leaves talking the child down. It has worked in the past, but it does not equate to working now. I find it hard to believe that the teachers did not attempt to talk the child down, even after the police were called. I also find it hard to believe that the police opened the door and sprayed him. I'm sure there was some sort of dialogue, including a warning that pepper spray was an option and one they were going to use if he did not stop.

I am working on the assumption that the police gave him some sort of warning, and informed him of the end consequence (the pepper spray).


Again, I think this is an abnormal case, and a very rare circumstance. Did the child understand what he was doing, or know what his actions were? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean that they weren't a possibility. This would explain why he was pepper sprayed, to prevent the threat, but not charged.

Let's not over look the fact that the police subdued the situation, and didn't take it further. No charges were laid in the matter, getting to the mental capacity of the 8 year old. Remember the act of what he's doing is separate from his ability to appreciate what he's going.

I think this is a very rare circumstance, but I don't see a better alternative based on the premise set out by the news report, and the additional premise that the police didn't just open the door and spray without any dialogue.

[Pinner]

[hockeycop]

Children at that age have not developed a firm understanding of right and wrong. They can be deadly. I like this article that was written by an American Police Sgt:

http://www.policeone.com/juvenile-cr...trol-children/

• Separate the parties and ask questions. An overly aggressive 10-year-old child may have an undiagnosed mental illness, or be the secret victim of physical or sexual abuse (possibly even by another family member). The little girl may not want to go to school because the janitor is fondling her in the coat closet every day and she doesn’t know where to turn. These kids may initially be a challenge to deal with, but you may be their only hope of getting help or escaping an awful situation.
• Beware the mother bear — don’t go it alone. When you must arrest a youngster — many of us work in “mandatory arrest” jurisdictions when it comes to domestic violence — make sure that you have backup. Also, make sure you have family members controlled and separated when you put Johnny in handcuffs. The mom who originally called “911” on her obnoxious 14-year-old kid just may turn into your worst officer survival nightmare when you’re stuffing her baby into the back seat of your cruiser.
Don’t underestimate the furor or cunning of siblings, grandparents, and other family or friends on the scene. Just because your arrestee hasn’t graduated elementary school doesn’t mean that he or she won’t hurt or kill you if they get the chance.
• Don’t worry about people’s misconceptions. I once arrested a 10-year-old boy for arson — he set fire to the family’s townhouse and believe me, it was no accident. Needless to say, I endured quite a bit of ribbing from my co-workers and some negative local press. I believe the editorial headline said something along the lines of: “Doesn’t the police department have anything better to do than put 4th graders in jail?”
This wasn’t the first time I’d had contact with him and it certainly wasn’t the last, but I knew what I was doing was right. He was a kid who needed a lot of help, something my agency desperately tried to provide, but it didn’t necessarily make the department — or me — particularly popular.

I also see the typical anti police type in here. I am not worried about your opinions, because you have not seen what people are truly capable of. I sometimes wish I could live in the same bubble of ignorant bliss that you do, but I can't. I live in the real world where a 13 year old will try to take my life on the first day in my job.

He was only 13 though... What could he possibly have done with the hand made wood shank. He was probably trying to give me an upclose look at his carving right? Maybe he was just alerting me to the broken wood bench? Nope... Your bubble world just got me killed.

Pinner and Mikey. I hope you never need the police. After all you like to be overly critical about something you know nothing about. You'll probably bash the cop who shows up to help because all police are evil doers incapable of human emotion. Chances are the cop wont care that you don't say thanks... Kinda used to that. We'll just move on to the next sh*tbird and the paperwork that comes with it. No thanks required.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

There are better ways to defend the police action in this case than this, hopefully. Studies of the effects of pepper spray have always been contradictory, but I don't believe there have ever been ANY done on the effects it has when sprayed into the faces of children. What if the kid was asphyxiated and ended up dying? You'd have more than the Mom screaming bloody murder.

Have there been any studies which have shown that you have any larger chance of dying by use of pepper spray than compared to any other method of subduing?

I mean if you wrapped your arms around a kid to calm him down, he could choke and die! If you pushed him down to the ground to restrain him he might break his femur and bleed out!

Where do you draw the line between pulling possible conclusions out of thin air and only considering conclusions that have a real chance of happening. Walking down the street has risks, but it doesn't mean we are all confined to our houses.

[Flames89]

The kid deserved a beating, and the police should have given it to him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Spraying this kid probably taught him a valuable lesson. Who knows, they may have just saved his life one day.

From the story, this was the 3rd time that police had to be called to deal with this kid. Without something like this happening, the only thing he'd be learning is that police can be toyed with. I wonder how the mother would have felt if he was 16 pulling crap with the police until one of them shoots him.

At least now he knows not to eff with them.