10-07-2020, 11:32 AM
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#81
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 868904
Not all defensemen need to put up points to be effective.
Honestly, Kuznetsov sounds like a biggy meaner Brodie. Also sounds a bit like Chris Tanev. Both very good top 4 defensemen who don't put up much points.
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I'm not asking for defensive defencemen to put up points in the NHL. I understand that's not what they're doing.
But almost no defencemen make it into the NHL if they are unable to put up points in lower leagues. I'm not asking for an NHLe of 25, but you need to see offensive progression this year if he is to have any chance of making it.
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10-07-2020, 11:33 AM
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#82
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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His offensive upside is hard to understand since so few 17 year olds play in the NCAA. He didn't turn 18 until March 21, so he was 17 for the entire NCAA season.
In the last 10 years only 4 d-men have even played in the NCAA at such a young age:
Werenski: 0.7 PPG
Hanifin: 0.6 PPG
Kuznetsov: 0.33 PPG
Dillion Simpson: 0.33 PPG
UCONN wasn't a very high scoring team and Kuznetsov was 2nd on the team among d-men in scoring as a 17 year old.
It's maybe not likely based on his history but he took a huge jump in production and moved a lot from a 16 year old in the USHL to being a 17 year old in the NCAA. If he could take a similar step next year then we may look back on this pick favorably.
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10-07-2020, 11:34 AM
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#83
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All I can get
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"Sweats Off for Kuznetsov!"
- Coming soon to a Red Mile near you.
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10-07-2020, 11:34 AM
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#84
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
I'm not asking for defensive defencemen to put up points in the NHL. I understand that's not what they're doing.
But almost no defencemen make it into the NHL if they are unable to put up points in lower leagues. I'm not asking for an NHLe of 25, but you need to see offensive progression this year if he is to have any chance of making it.
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His numbers seem alright for a 17yo in NCAA. Will be interesting what they do about dev camp in a covid world.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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10-07-2020, 11:34 AM
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#85
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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Jesus I forgot about the constant and overdramatic draft day whining. Glad I wasn't around during the trades yesterday.
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10-07-2020, 11:34 AM
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#86
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
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Holloway: 0.5 PPG
Kuznetsov: 0.3 PPG
Not that much of a difference, really.
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10-07-2020, 11:34 AM
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#87
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It's not easy being green!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
A 6'4" Russian D playing college hockey. Alrighty.
"Jake Muzzin type of defender"
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He shoots left.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
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10-07-2020, 11:35 AM
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#88
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdonkey
Good thing we used a 2nd round pick on the kind of player who is available for nothing all the time.
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These type of comments are always so funny to me. Let's look back in a few years.
You're not getting a slam dunk, sure fire top line prospect in the back half of the second round.
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10-07-2020, 11:35 AM
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#89
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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You can't really compare him to Kanzig. Kanzig was drafted because he was freakishly big (6'7" - 247 lbs). It was a high risk pick that didn't work out. I don't think that failure should deter you from taking risks in the future.
Having said that, Kuznetsov is tall (6'4"), but no one drafts a 6'4" defenseman just because the he is 6'4". It's not that rare of an attribute that you overlook other weaknesses for it. There were 50 defensemen in the league last year that were 6'4" or taller. If anything, this looks like a safe pick. Not a huge ceiling, but a good chance to make the show.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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10-07-2020, 11:36 AM
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#90
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Resident Videologist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology
He shoots left.
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Alllllllefty then.
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10-07-2020, 11:36 AM
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#91
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Duncan Kieth had 15pts in 41g in his draft year in the NCAA. McDonagh had 12pts in 40g. Kuznetsov's production is fine.
Last edited by Sandman; 10-07-2020 at 11:38 AM.
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10-07-2020, 11:36 AM
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#92
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo45
I think the career high of 11 points at ANY level is a massive red flag that the upside just isn’t there
Is there an example of a top 4 D in the entire league who produced that little offensively?
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Esa Lindell's career high at the same age for points was 0.
Miro Hieskanen's career high at the same age was 10 points
Jon Kilingburg's career high at the same age was 6 points
Jaimie Oleksiak's career high at the same age was 14 points, so he was more of an offensive juggernaut.
I just looked at one team, not sure what the offensive production was for other dmen in the league.
Last edited by Aarongavey; 10-07-2020 at 11:40 AM.
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10-07-2020, 11:37 AM
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#93
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First Line Centre
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Flames could have an all Russian shut down pair one day...
Yan Kuznetsov - Alexander Yelesin
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10-07-2020, 11:37 AM
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#94
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdonkey
Good thing we used a 2nd round pick on the kind of player who is available for nothing all the time.
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Still raining in your world eh?
You ever get tired of it?
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10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
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#95
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Franchise Player
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I think this pick is very similar to Detriot's pick of Wallinder. Both tall and lanky defensemen who are good skaters and defense first players.
Yzerman is hailed as one of the best talent evaluators and GMs and he spent an even higher pick on a similar player.
__________________
Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
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10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
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#96
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bax
These type of comments are always so funny to me. Let's look back in a few years.
You're not getting a slam dunk, sure fire top line prospect in the back half of the second round.
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Flames took Rasmus Anderson @ 53 in 2015
Maybe not a slam dunk at the time but pretty close.
He was highly touted just some concerns with speed/his weight.
Not sure how many people here were upset with it, but I seem to recall a lot of us being happy/thinking we made out like bandits with this pick.
(To be fair I'm not upset with this pick myself)
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10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
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#97
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Duncan Kieth had 15pts in 41g in his draft year in the NCAA. Kuznetsov's production is fine.
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Keith’s D0 NHLe: 17
Kuznetsov’s D0 NHLe: 10
This definitely isn’t a wasted pick. It is an intriguing one, and one that could be seen as a home run swing given his age and size - hopefully it connects.
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10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
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#98
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Still raining in your world eh?
You ever get tired of it?
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MrDonkey
Raining
Eeyore
I see what you did there.
__________________
I like to quote myself - scotty2hotty
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10-07-2020, 11:38 AM
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#99
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
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I think Kuznetsov's NCAA production is more or less fine.
But he only had 4 points in 34 USHL games. That's pretty iffy. Really, he took a huge step forward in terms of production this year.
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10-07-2020, 11:39 AM
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#100
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Resident Videologist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Still raining in your world eh?
You ever get tired of it?
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