UPD: Flames renounce rights to Topi Ronni

[Erick Estrada]

Well this thread has predictably taken a turn for the worse. Sigh.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by VilleN

That's irrelevant. The term 'simple' as used by the poster is conveying the idea that you can simply accuse someone of something and destroy their lives. Thus, diluting the power of the law - which we should all be very wary of. I think we all understand the seriousness of rape. However, an accusation does not imply guilt.

No, it's not irrelevant, and you continue to trivialize the nature of accusing someone of rape. It's not a simple matter.

There's definite validity in having a fulsome discussion about how any criminal accusation can dramatically effect a person's life in a wide variety of ways, and how perhaps our system of rapid social media dispersal of all news and commentary on said news devolves rapidly into pseudo mob mentality where the common refrain is to lynch the accused... but not by spitting out #### like "simply" accusing someone. It's not simple, it's very serious. Trivializing it actually mentally reduces the barrier for people to falsely accuse and thus perform the exact type of systemic abuse you're referring to.

Regardless, this is a bad news story for the club. His guilt actually doesn't matter to the public image of the club at this point, for the exact mob mentality reasons referenced above. How to minimize impact to the club is probably the priority.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No, it's not irrelevant, and you continue to trivialize the nature of accusing someone of rape. It's not a simple matter.

There's definite validity in having a fulsome discussion about how any criminal accusation can dramatically effect a person's life in a wide variety of ways, and how perhaps our system of rapid social media dispersal of all news and commentary on said news devolves rapidly into pseudo mob mentality where the common refrain is to lynch the accused... but not by spitting out #### like "simply" accusing someone. It's not simple, it's very serious. Trivializing it actually mentally reduces the barrier for people to falsely accuse and thus perform the exact type of systemic abuse you're referring to.

Regardless, this is a bad news story for the club. His guilt actually doesn't matter to the public image of the club at this point, for the exact mob mentality reasons referenced above. How to minimize impact to the club is probably the priority.

What a ridiculous take. Nobody was downplaying the seriousness of rape, only you would take it that way. Maybe it's time to grow up. The simple part of the statement doesn't even have anything to do with the act itself.

[Beninho]

Well that’s not good

[cral12]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Lane Hutson went 3 picks later. Unrelated to this but wish we'd swung for the fences on him

Definitely makes it tougher to swallow.

I kept watching if Hutson would drop to us - when he did and we passed on him, I was beyond disappointed.

I would have even been happy with David Goyette who went 2 picks after Ronni.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well this thread has predictably taken a turn for the worse. Sigh.

Like all rape threads on CP.

[Hockey_Ninja]

This is just another gut punch to an organization that hasn’t had too many things go their way over the last year. My thoughts go out to his victim if he is indeed guilty

[IceBergYYC]

Some of y'all's first thoughts really was to look at this from a business perspective huh. The official statement from the Flames perspective is "we became aware after the draft"

You all act like you're shareholders of CSEC. You're not, you're a person who ocassionally (or frequently) pays to watch them play hockey.

How about we just go "wow, that sucks for the victim, I hope it isn't true, but we'll see, and hopefully the truth comes out either way."

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[fotze2]

Originally Posted by IceBergYYC

Some of y'all's first thoughts really was to look at this from a business perspective huh. The official statement from the Flames perspective is "we became aware after the draft"

You all act like you're shareholders of CSEC. You're not, you're a person who ocassionally (or frequently) pays to watch them play hockey.

How about we just go "wow, that sucks for the victim, I hope it isn't true, but we'll see, and hopefully the truth comes out either way."

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk

That's not how we roll.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by IceBergYYC

Some of y'all's first thoughts really was to look at this from a business perspective huh. The official statement from the Flames perspective is "we became aware after the draft"

You all act like you're shareholders of CSEC. You're not, you're a person who ocassionally (or frequently) pays to watch them play hockey.

How about we just go "wow, that sucks for the victim, I hope it isn't true, but we'll see, and hopefully the truth comes out either way."

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Devils Advocate, I think there is some context here too. I'm going to venture as far as to say the average rape accusation in Finland would not garner a thread here. This entire conversation exists because of how it relates to CSEC, so a lot of the perspectives will be in relation to how CSEC will be impacted / react and possibly is even complicit.

Makes for a lot of bad takes, but it's the thread you are on.

[IceBergYYC]

Originally Posted by #-3

Devils Advocate, I think there is some context here too. I'm going to venture as far as to say the average rape accusation in Finland would not garner a thread here. This entire conversation exists because of how it relates to CSEC, so a lot of the perspectives will be in relation to how CSEC will be impacted / react and possibly is even complicit.



Makes for a lot of bad takes, but it's the thread you are on.

theres a difference between going "oh wow, I wonder if we're going to release his signing rights" and the immediate finger pointing at everyone from the scouts to brad claiming a massive failure of the organization.

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[Moneyhands23]

Lock the thread. The main info and opinions have been stated.

Nothing good will come going forward.

[Buff]

In the Athletic's article it says that he wasn't charged until July 2023 and the incident happened in summer of 2021 when he was a minor.

[Locke]

Hm. Well...thats not ideal.

Look, I'm willing to be the first in line to hang Treliving from the nearest yardarm but I dont think he or the Flames made any mistakes here.

It seems like it'd be almost impossible to know at the time.

I have no idea what Ronni did. If he's guilty? String him up.

On another (admittedly uneducated) note, what takes so long? We're creeping up on 6 years for the Hockey Canada fiasco, this is a couple years old...whats the hold up?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No, it's not irrelevant, and you continue to trivialize the nature of accusing someone of rape. It's not a simple matter.

There's definite validity in having a fulsome discussion about how any criminal accusation can dramatically effect a person's life in a wide variety of ways, and how perhaps our system of rapid social media dispersal of all news and commentary on said news devolves rapidly into pseudo mob mentality where the common refrain is to lynch the accused... but not by spitting out #### like "simply" accusing someone. It's not simple, it's very serious. Trivializing it actually mentally reduces the barrier for people to falsely accuse and thus perform the exact type of systemic abuse you're referring to.

Regardless, this is a bad news story for the club. His guilt actually doesn't matter to the public image of the club at this point, for the exact mob mentality reasons referenced above. How to minimize impact to the club is probably the priority.

Lol - ok man - keep that pitchfork out it’s clearly all you want to do. If I were you though, I would DISAVOW MYSELF OF THAT IMMEDIATELY!!

Also, your comment reads like a 9th graders essay trying to throw in big words for extra marks.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Disavow yourself of this opinion immediately.

There is nothing "simple" about accusing someone of rape or sexual assault.

There is room for a discussion on the impacts of media on fair trial and innocence until proven guilt, but let's not diminish the act of accusing someone of something like this to triviality. Most cases of sexual assault or rape are in fact never reported because of the complexity, stress, pain, and often retribution caused by reporting.

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No, it's not irrelevant, and you continue to trivialize the nature of accusing someone of rape. It's not a simple matter.

There's definite validity in having a fulsome discussion about how any criminal accusation can dramatically effect a person's life in a wide variety of ways, and how perhaps our system of rapid social media dispersal of all news and commentary on said news devolves rapidly into pseudo mob mentality where the common refrain is to lynch the accused... but not by spitting out #### like "simply" accusing someone. It's not simple, it's very serious. Trivializing it actually mentally reduces the barrier for people to falsely accuse and thus perform the exact type of systemic abuse you're referring to.

Regardless, this is a bad news story for the club. His guilt actually doesn't matter to the public image of the club at this point, for the exact mob mentality reasons referenced above. How to minimize impact to the club is probably the priority.

This is a really solid example of manufactured righteousness. It's silly and does nothing to help any part of this situation.

We all know what dissentowner's intent was and what they meant with their comment, and it neither diminishes nor trivializes victims' experiences.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

WTF scouts...was this an event that took place pre-draft? Who's doing their homework on these guys?

It's a matter of confidentiality. At the time he was drafted, he a minor who was probably under investigation, but had not been charged. The names of minors under investigation are rarely published (I believe it would require a court order, at least in Canada), and would not show up on a background check. Teams might well ask potential draftees about whether they are under investigation for any alleged crimes, but there is no way to confirm the accuracy of a potential draftees' response to such a question.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by VilleN

That's irrelevant. The term 'simple' as used by the poster is conveying the idea that you can simply accuse someone of something and destroy their lives. Thus, diluting the power of the law - which we should all be very wary of. I think we all understand the seriousness of rape. However, an accusation does not imply guilt.

Then only way you can 'simply' accuse someone of something and have it ruin their lives is if you have credibility and a big platform.

That's not the case here. Accusation --> Investigation --> resulting in apparently enough evidence to merit laying charges. Of course I've got no idea about the Finnish legal system, but I suspect you don't point a finger at someone and then they go to trial.

Of course that is all still wildly insufficient to determine guilt (that's why we have trials), but it definitely isn't simple. The 'problem' of false accusations certainly exists, but IMO it gets wildly overblown compared to the systemic issues precluding credible accusations.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Then only way you can 'simply' accuse someone of something and have it ruin their lives is if you have credibility and a big platform.

That's not the case here. Accusation --> Investigation --> resulting in apparently enough evidence to merit laying charges. Of course I've got no idea about the Finnish legal system, but I suspect you don't point a finger at someone and then they go to trial.

Of course that is all still wildly insufficient to determine guilt (that's why we have trials), but it definitely isn't simple. The 'problem' of false accusations certainly exists, but IMO it gets wildly overblown compared to the systemic issues precluding credible accusations.

It's a silly word to get hung up on. And the only reason it was originally pointed out was to try and twist the intent of the original post into something despicable (and ridiculous).

The point being made is simple: An accusation (any criminal accusation, not just rape - albeit allegations of a sexual nature are typically the most damaging) can destroy a person's life. Now, the reason the word 'simple' was used is because relative to the damage it can do it is simple.

In a perfect world, all accusations would be kept absolutely private until the accused person was found guilty.

Finally, given the proclivity of some posters to twist words, I should reiterate - rape=awful - if he actually raped anyone he should be punished as harshly as possible.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by VilleN

It's a silly word to get hung up on. And the only reason it was originally pointed out was to try and twist the intent of the original post into something despicable (and ridiculous).

The point being made is simple: An accusation (any criminal accusation, not just rape - albeit allegations of a sexual nature are typically the most damaging) can destroy a person's life. Now, the reason the word 'simple' was used is because relative to the damage it can do it is simple.

In a perfect world, all accusations would be kept absolutely private until the accused person was found guilty.

Finally, given the proclivity of some posters to twist words, I should reiterate - rape=awful - if he actually raped anyone he should be punished as harshly as possible.

You are still misunderstanding the point entirely- but I actually don't think you're capable of understanding it. Including the word SIMPLE, even if it's not what you intend, trivializes the nature of the accusation. It's not simple. Don't describe it like that.