Russia invades Ukraine

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Need to be careful on using past awards received 50 years ago for validation of current reporting today.

Seymour Hersch seems to be staunchly pro-Russian

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/l...-a8459596.html







https://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634...a-joint-chiefs



The guy sounds like a raging conspiracy theorist lunatic, and that's putting it politely.

Do you think he's just lying about his sources?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Me a service member?? the closest I ever came was West ham Utd' s Barmy Army in the late 70's, I'm not sure trying to kick seven bells out of those j cloth wearing twats at Millwall counts as service (although it should)

My bad, thought you had a service background.

Would still be interested in the input of people in the know, will it really take months to train soldiers on Leopard tanks? I assume they are built to be operated as simply as possible. And maybe peacetime military training takes months with rounds of tests and such, but I have to think wartime expedited training can’t take that long. In my head it seems like it wouldn’t take more than a few weeks to learn how to operate for their purposes.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Do you think he's just lying about his sources?

Did you read the articles I linked? Have you ever researched him on his recent credibility issues before linking to his blog as you just found an easy way to validate your own conspiracy theories?

He has the credibility of a gnat in recent years. He is literally a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and infamously thinks the Bin Laden assassination was a hoax.

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/858447...sama-bin-laden

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...sra-government

A decade ago, Hersh was one of the most respected investigative journalists on the planet, having broken major stories from the My Lai massacre in 1969 to the Abu Ghraib scandal in 2004. But more recently, his reports have become less and less credible. He's claimed that much of the US special forces is controlled by secret members of Opus Dei, that the US military flew Iranian terrorists to Nevada for training, and that the 2013 chemical weapons attack in Syria was a "false flag" staged by the government of Turkey. Those reports have had little proof and, rather than being borne out by subsequent investigations, have been either unsubstantiated or outright debunked. A close reading of Hersh's bin Laden story suggests it is likely to suffer the same fate.

The only reason he even gets the time of day is because of his past, by people hoping that his conspiracy theories may be true.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Coach

My bad, thought you had a service background.

Would still be interested in the input of people in the know, will it really take months to train soldiers on Leopard tanks? I assume they are built to be operated as simply as possible. And maybe peacetime military training takes months with rounds of tests and such, but I have to think wartime expedited training can’t take that long. In my head it seems like it wouldn’t take more than a few weeks to learn how to operate for their purposes.

Actually I think it's just as easy as aim the pointy end toward the enemy. Pretty good general rule of war going back probably 10,000 years.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Do you think he's just lying about his sources?

He wouldn't be the first guy who's gone off the deep end in old age. He's had a lot of cases recently where he's using unverified anonymous "source officials" while claiming a broad shadowy cabal.

His denial of the Skripal Novichok poisoning and use of chemical weapons in Syria are pretty darn bad when every organization sent in independently says otherwise.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Did you read the articles I linked? Have you ever researched him on his recent credibility issues before linking to his blog as you just found an easy way to validate your own conspiracy theories?

He has the credibility of a gnat in recent years. He is literally a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and infamously thinks the Bin Laden assassination was a hoax.

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/858447...sama-bin-laden

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...sra-government



The only reason he even gets the time of day is because of his past, by people hoping that his conspiracy theories may be true.

What is with your aggressive tone?

I posted a link with a description of his claims.

You're free to dispute it, as anyone is.

[burn_this_city]

Bellingcat isn’t buying the story.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1623350084925521922

[CroFlames]

I highly doubt the guys story. There are plausible arguments for a lot of the parties involved, but until there is hard evidence or someone admits it, my guess is we'll never know. I doubt it was the US.

If I were a betting man, I still bet on Russia. They wanted Europe/Germany to be so dependent on Russia's energy that they would turn a blind eye to their invasion. When the exact opposite happened and Europe/NATO/West united in solidarity to oppose the invasion, Putin blows up the pipeline in a hissy fit.

It might even be a "burn the ships" type of moment. No going back now from the invasion. All in for victory in Ukraine, or ultimate defeat. Kinda scary actually.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

What is with your aggressive tone?

I posted a link with a description of his claims.

You're free to dispute it, as anyone is.

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Do you think he's just lying about his sources?

You still haven't accepted he is a loon and still hiding your own conspiracy theory belief under the pretense that this loon claims inside sources and couldn't possibly be lying.

There's a reason why he didn't sell this seemingly breaking story in any reputable news agency as no one would be crazy enough to publish it. Same reason why no agency carried his Bin Laden story in 2015. He was full of crap then and full of crap now. See if you believe this one.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/media...n-story-206933

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/...sama-bin-laden

This spring I contacted Durrani and told him in detail what I had learned about the bin Laden assault from American sources: that bin Laden had been a prisoner of the ISI at the Abbottabad compound since 2006; that Kayani and Pasha knew of the raid in advance and had made sure that the two helicopters delivering the Seals to Abbottabad could cross Pakistani airspace without triggering any alarms; that the CIA did not learn of bin Laden’s whereabouts by tracking his couriers, as the White House has claimed since May 2011, but from a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer who betrayed the secret in return for much of the $25 million reward offered by the US, and that, while Obama did order the raid and the Seal team did carry it out, many other aspects of the administration’s account were false.

Sounds legit right? He has American sources. Problem is it's a total fabrication that was unsubstantiated and debunked.

Don't propagate conspiracy theories from people who have lost their marbles.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Firebot

You still haven't accepted he is a loon and still hiding your own conspiracy theory belief under the pretense that this loon claims inside sources and couldn't possibly be lying.

There's a reason why he didn't sell this seemingly breaking story in any reputable news agency as no one would be crazy enough to publish it. Same reason why no agency carried his Bin Laden story in 2015. He was full of crap then and full of crap now. See if you believe this one.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/media...n-story-206933

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v37/...sama-bin-laden



Sounds legit right? He has American sources. Problem is it's a total fabrication that was unsubstantiated and debunked.

Don't propagate conspiracy theories from people who have lost their marbles.

Wtf is wrong with you?

Of course it needs to be substantiated and can't be construed as fact until there is corroboration. I'm not jumping to conclusions either way on it at this point. You are, and you're behaving aggressively.

I feel like Sliver in a South Centre Mall glasses store right now.

[Monahammer]

There would have to be very hard evidence to convince me that the USA did it. There's just far too much to lose. The entire system of alliances that they're hegemony relies on would be jeopardized.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Do you think he's just lying about his sources?

Seems highly probable based on his recent history

[peter12]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Think these old leopards will do well in conjunction with modern drones + information. These things used to drive a lot more blindly than what modern day intelligence can give them. It still pew pew's

The latest upgrades of the Lep 1s have optics and fire control systems that Russian tankers could only dream about. All this with a gun that was specifically built to put holes in Russian armour.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

What is with your aggressive tone?

I posted a link with a description of his claims.

You're free to dispute it, as anyone is.

You are hilariously anti-Western. Dare I say... a quisling?

[FlameOn]

Frankly Bellingcat has a history of publishing every piece of evidence, every OSINT intercepted call, every satellite image available, to show their line of reasoning beyond reasonable doubt. Also, Russians just put them on their hitlist for assassination.

Hersh on the other hand is basing this on a single, unverified, and by his own admission anonymous source and has a recent history of wild and kooky claims. Yea, I'm not trusting that.

Firebot got annoyed you didn't read his massive articles before responding JohnnyB, which isn't great but understandable since not everyone can do that on fricking mobile on the go. Everyone just needs to back off and chill. Its just news, lets keep things civil.

[burn_this_city]

TASS is already running with the bombshell as proof of US malfeasance.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Frankly Bellingcat has a history of publishing every piece of evidence, every OSINT intercepted call, every satellite image available, to show their line of reasoning beyond reasonable doubt. Also, Russians just put them on their hitlist for assassination.

Hersh on the other hand is basing this on a single, unverified, and by his own admission anonymous source and has a recent history of wild and kooky claims. Yea, I'm not trusting that.

Firebot got annoyed you didn't read his massive articles before responding JohnnyB, which isn't great but understandable since not everyone can do that on fricking mobile on the go. Everyone just needs to back off and chill. Its just news, lets keep things civil.

Agreed about the need to chill. A simple "yes" when asked about whether or not s/he thinks Hersch was just lying would have sufficed. I didn't come here looking for a fight, and annoyance isn't a great excuse for replying as they did.

Numerous posters responded totally normally and reasonably in saying they don't believe Hersch. I've got no issue with that. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

TASS is already running with the bombshell as proof of US malfeasance.

That quickly there has to be some level of coordination. Hersch probably got reminded of that night he spent with some Slavic lady in eastern Europe awhile back.

Totally forgot Hersch denied US intelligence claims that Russia manipulated US elections to put Trump into power when Putin himself basically admitted to doing it and it's been well documented by other investigative journalists.

[Harry Lime]

I've run into two people this week (unfortunately one of them a company higher up) who are heavily pro-Russian. And when I questioned them on it, they turn out to be very right wing.

How is this stupidity even happening?

When did Texas-style conservative right wing people become Pro-Putin, Pro-KGB, Pro-Stalin, Pro-Soviet, Pro-Bring back the Supreme Soviet structure, wanks?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I've run into two people this week (unfortunately one of them a company higher up) who are heavily pro-Russian. And when I questioned them on it, they turn out to be very right wing.

How is this stupidity even happening?

When did Texas-style conservative right wing people become Pro-Putin, Pro-KGB, Pro-Stalin, Pro-Soviet, Pro-Bring back the Supreme Soviet structure, wanks?

Because the democrats are supporting ukraine?