2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Backlund is a guy we can win with IMO. He had a down year. Doesn't mean his career is on the downswing, far from it IMO. Don't think we'd be looking to move him.

Our centre depth seems fine going forward as I still think one of Jankowski/Bennett can be a #2 centre. Jankowski could be counted on to centre our 2nd scoring line next year. I'd still take ROR as he can play LW/C but our real need seems to be for a high skill, offence driving RW, preferably a right shot.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Backlund is a guy we can win with IMO. He had a down year. Doesn't mean his career is on the downswing, far from it IMO. Don't think we'd be looking to move him.

Our centre depth seems fine going forward as I still think one of Jankowski/Bennett can be a #2 centre. Jankowski could be counted on to centre our 2nd scoring line next year. I'd still take ROR as he can play LW/C but our real need seems to be for a high skill, offence driving RW, preferably a right shot.

Wow. Didnt think I would ever see those words on this site after the last 2 seasons.

Curious as what it is you see that makes this remotely possible considering he didnt look like could handle a 3rd line C role.

I must be in the minority, cause i dont see anything from him that has him in a top 6 spot regardless of the position. Yet so many others seem too find something in his game that "projects" to something higher.

No question he can be an NHL player, i just dont see an impactful one that does anything more than chip in a bit offensively and gets chippy while taking mind numbing penalties at times.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I like the idea of getting O’Reilly out of Buffalo but with Brodie’s NTC I doubt he would wave it to go. So that really only leaves us with Hamilton on the backed to trade, which is a pretty steep price to pay. It would also leave us with too many centers (Monahan/Backlund/Janko/Bennett/Shore) and the same lack of depth on the RW. So here is my crazy two trade proposal

To Buffalo:
Dougie Hamilton
Forward Prospect like Hunter Shinkaruk or Mangiapne

To Calgary:
Ryan O’Reilly
Sam Reinhart

Then you would trade Backlund and a D prospect to Ottawa for a RWer

To Ottawa
Mikael Backlund
D Prospect like Oliver Kylington/Wotherspoon/

To Calgary:
Mark Stone

This would give Calgary a pretty solid 1/2/3 forward lines and weaker but acceptable defense in my opinion anyway.

Gaudreau - Monahan – Stone
Tkachuk – O’Reilly - Reinhardt
Bennett - Jankowski - Ferland
Lazar - Stone – Foo
(Dube/Hathaway)

Giordano - Brodie
Hamonic - Andersson
Kulak - Stone
(Valimaki/Wotherspoon)

Smith
Rittich

You would also need to buyout Brouwer and trade Frolik for picks...

Pretty tough deals to make considering all the key players in those deals have NTC or NMC.

[Badgers Nose]

If you are trading Hamilton; you are getting Stone and Hoffman which makes sense for a very young D man that can replace some of Karlsson.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wow. Didnt think I would ever see those words on this site after the last 2 seasons.

Curious as what it is you see that makes this remotely possible considering he didnt look like could handle a 3rd line C role.

I must be in the minority, cause i dont see anything from him that has him in a top 6 spot regardless of the position. Yet so many others seem too find something in his game that "projects" to something higher.

No question he can be an NHL player, i just dont see an impactful one that does anything more than chip in a bit offensively and gets chippy while taking mind numbing penalties at times.

Well I think he does look better on the wing. Jankowki is the more likely bet to be a 2nd line centre.

I just don't think you can write off skilled guys like him. His skill hasn't evaporated. So much of hockey is the mental game. Confidence and doubt play such a huge role for young players. Consistency is a struggle. With his skill set its hard to put a ceiling if he gets some confidence going and makes a few adjustments. He's a streaky player and some players play their best when they aren't overthinking things and just playing and reacting.

I agree with a lot of what Loubardias said about Bennett yesterday. He needs to relax and start having fun with hockey and just play his best game on a consistent basis.

You are judging him on how he looks now and that's fair. But young players sometimes take giant strides forward in their game. IMO its far too early to say he can only be this or that. Lots of young players aren't even in the NHL yet at his age. Jankowski was still in college at Bennett's age. I get that people expect 4th overall picks to get there faster but its not necessarily how fast you get there, but that you get there in the end.

Bennett has the tools to be a top two line player in the NHL. He may still put it together. I think its far too early to write him off. Was Giordano a fully developed player at 21? Nope. Was Pronger? Nope. Was Hedman? Nope. Was Bertuzzi? Nope. Was Brodie? Nope. Was Backlund? Nope. Were the Sedins? Nope, they didn't hit 50+ points til like 5 years after being drafted. We could literally go on forever with examples of guys like that even though I know some people will nitpick every example and tell me Bennett isn't exactly like that guy or that guy. Every player is unique. I'm just trying to point out some players that continued to improve and develop past Bennett's age.

People expect Bennett to be further ahead because frankly we've been spoiled with how NHL ready Monahan and Tkackuk were at an early age. If you look at the entirety of young players and how they develop guys like Monahan and Tkachuk are the exceptions not the norm.

There's still time for Bennett to take some big strides forward. I know its hard to have patience with young players especially when their development seemingly regresses. Its easy to write off guys like Lazar and Bennett and think they'll never improve. Believe what you will but I still see some untapped skill and potential in both.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well I think he does look better on the wing. Jankowki is the more likely bet to be a 2nd line centre.

I just don't think you can write off skilled guys like him. His skill hasn't evaporated. So much of hockey is the mental game. Confidence and doubt play such a huge role for young players. Consistency is a struggle. With his skill set its hard to put a ceiling if he gets some confidence going and makes a few adjustments. He's a streaky player and some players play their best when they aren't overthinking things and just playing and reacting.

I agree with a lot of what Loubardias said about Bennett yesterday. He needs to relax and start having fun with hockey and just play his best game on a consistent basis.

You are judging him on how he looks now and that's fair. But young players sometimes take giant strides forward in their game. IMO its far too early to say he can only be this or that. Lots of young players aren't even in the NHL yet at his age. Jankowski was still in college at Bennett's age. I get that people expect 4th overall picks to get there faster but its not necessarily how fast you get there, but that you get there in the end.

Bennett has the tools to be a top two line player in the NHL. He may still put it together. I think its far too early to write him off. Was Giordano a fully developed player at 21? Nope. Was Pronger? Nope. Was Hedman? Nope. Was Bertuzzi? Nope. Was Brodie? Nope. Was Backlund? Nope. Were the Sedins? Nope, they didn't hit 50+ points til like 5 years after being drafted. We could literally go on forever with examples of guys like that even though I know some people will nitpick every example and tell me Bennett isn't exactly like that guy or that guy. Every player is unique. I'm just trying to point out some players that continued to improve and develop past Bennett's age.

People expect Bennett to be further ahead because frankly we've been spoiled with how NHL ready Monahan and Tkackuk were at an early age. If you look at the entirety of young players and how they develop guys like Monahan and Tkachuk are the exceptions not the norm.

There's still time for Bennett to take some big strides forward. I know its hard to have patience with young players especially when their development seemingly regresses. Its easy to write off guys like Lazar and Bennett and think they'll never improve. Believe what you will but I still see some untapped skill and potential in both.

Oh I am fully aware that guys can start to figure things out at different stages of their careers, but what i am saying with Bennett is i dont see anything skill wise to suggest top 6 winger, and certainly not at C. He does not think the game particularly well, he isnt a great skater though he is adequate, and more than anything with him is how easily he is knocked off the puck, and apparently off his game.

At least with the majority of your examples, there was always something there and it was tangible...obvious there was more. With Bennett I dont see it (hence why i said i must be in the minority as you are not alone in your assessment). On top of that is his discipline issues on the ice, which I have found through many years of watching this game, is an indication of how the rest of your game goes. If you cannot take the simple step of eliminating dumb penalties repeatedly, you generally arent going to improve elsewhere.

I hope I am dead wrong on him and he lives up to his ceiling and his draft position...Im afraid i have seen nothing to indicate that in 3 NHL seasons though.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well I think he does look better on the wing. Jankowki is the more likely bet to be a 2nd line centre.

I just don't think you can write off skilled guys like him. His skill hasn't evaporated. So much of hockey is the mental game. Confidence and doubt play such a huge role for young players. Consistency is a struggle. With his skill set its hard to put a ceiling if he gets some confidence going and makes a few adjustments. He's a streaky player and some players play their best when they aren't overthinking things and just playing and reacting.

I agree with a lot of what Loubardias said about Bennett yesterday. He needs to relax and start having fun with hockey and just play his best game on a consistent basis.

You are judging him on how he looks now and that's fair. But young players sometimes take giant strides forward in their game. IMO its far too early to say he can only be this or that. Lots of young players aren't even in the NHL yet at his age. Jankowski was still in college at Bennett's age. I get that people expect 4th overall picks to get there faster but its not necessarily how fast you get there, but that you get there in the end.

Bennett has the tools to be a top two line player in the NHL. He may still put it together. I think its far too early to write him off. Was Giordano a fully developed player at 21? Nope. Was Pronger? Nope. Was Hedman? Nope. Was Bertuzzi? Nope. Was Brodie? Nope. Was Backlund? Nope. Were the Sedins? Nope, they didn't hit 50+ points til like 5 years after being drafted. We could literally go on forever with examples of guys like that even though I know some people will nitpick every example and tell me Bennett isn't exactly like that guy or that guy. Every player is unique. I'm just trying to point out some players that continued to improve and develop past Bennett's age.

People expect Bennett to be further ahead because frankly we've been spoiled with how NHL ready Monahan and Tkackuk were at an early age. If you look at the entirety of young players and how they develop guys like Monahan and Tkachuk are the exceptions not the norm.

There's still time for Bennett to take some big strides forward. I know its hard to have patience with young players especially when their development seemingly regresses. Its easy to write off guys like Lazar and Bennett and think they'll never improve. Believe what you will but I still see some untapped skill and potential in both.

2015-2016 CGY 77 18 18 36 -11
2016-2017 CGY 81 13 13 26 -16
2017-2018 CGY 82 11 15 26 -18

That's three complete seasons from Sam Bennett in the Nhl with pretty visible regression. By the stat test he is doing worse than nail yakupov and by the eye test he remains mecurial at best.

It's quite a long shot to think he'll be a top 6 player now. He has not shown that ability in ~250 games. 1/4 of Stajan career, and Stajan had better numbers.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wow. Didnt think I would ever see those words on this site after the last 2 seasons.

Curious as what it is you see that makes this remotely possible considering he didnt look like could handle a 3rd line C role.

I must be in the minority, cause i dont see anything from him that has him in a top 6 spot regardless of the position. Yet so many others seem too find something in his game that "projects" to something higher.

No question he can be an NHL player, i just dont see an impactful one that does anything more than chip in a bit offensively and gets chippy while taking mind numbing penalties at times.

Tough to argue your points.

Sam, from my observations, has a major problem is in his game. The good news is that it can be remedied. It will take a lot of commitment and discipline from him and probably a lot of help from a qualified mental skills coach.

His mental skills ,look to me , to be his greatest liability. He has high expectations, I am sure, as he is very skilled and talented . However, Sam is easily distracted ( bad pass by a teammate , poor choice by himself, not playing as much as he thinks he deserves etc.}and as a result loses his focus. There is a direct correlation between positive mental energy and positive physical energy. ....negative mental energy and negative physical energy.

Pre game

Starting 18 hours before leaving for the rink for game ...8 five minute mental preparation sessions by himself focused on...

1) mental rehearsal - reviewing systems in all zones, special teams role and responsibilities, face off situations and responsibilities etc
Result- he is acting and reacting at top speed when the game starts. The game is to fast to think during the game.

2) mental imagery- building his own mental highlight film that he can see in his minds eye. Great things he has done in previous games..etc. Geeting jack about how good you are going to perform.

3) self talk- talking yourself and your game up based on when you are at your best.

IN GAME

1) PARK NEGATIVE ENERGY- Have a symbol on the butt end of your stick. Whether it be a bad call , bad play by teammate , opponent , something you didn’t like that was said by a coach...etc. Focus on the symbol and get rid of all of the ####ty thoughts by parking them on the symbol ,,,,takes focus. After every shift, as soon as you come back to bench.

2) RESET- inhale through nose- 4 seconds... hold for 4 seconds...exhale through mouth for 4 seconds.
3 Sets.

3) MENTAL IMAGERY again . Get excited about how good you are going to be next shift.

If you come off the ice and have a negative attitude regarding your last shift and do not use a routine to reset...you will regress the next shift.

To reiterate , the correlation is so strong between positive/ negative mental energy and positive / negative physical energy . It is quite amazing and scientifically proven.



Bottom line...doing the WORK before the game would allow Sam to be excited about how good he is going to be as opposed to worrying about mistakes and other useless things. The game would become fun for him again.

This unwillingness or ignorance of building a reliable mental preparation routine and in game “ stay in the moment “ routine ( between shifts) are some of the major reasons he looks so weak at times on his skates and takes so many undisciplined penalties. When he is “on” ...he is fast, strong on the puck , makes good plays, instinctively. These instances are few and far between.

In game resets, If you doubt me, just look at Sams facial expressions during a game.
Frustration, weakness and negativity personified.

Bottom line...whatever you’re telling yourself you’re probably right.

IMO, the positive difference in his game would be markedly noticeable with corresponding positive results.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by timbit

Bottom line...whatever you’re telling yourself you’re probably right.

IMO, the positive difference in his game would be markedly noticeable with corresponding positive results.

Very good post. How many coaches have this kind of detail and knowledge on the mental part of the game?

This seems like a case where some really strong and effective coaching could really help a guy like Bennett.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

1: Hamilton for Stone + pick
2: Janko, Bennett, Fox for O'Reilly

Are these close?

The first deal is fine. The second deal I would be calling for Tre's head on a platter.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The first deal is fine. The second deal I would be calling for Tre's head on a platter.

I would be calling for Tre's head on a platter for both of those trades. I realize some of you have a hard on for perennial 20 goal scorer (yawn) Mark Stone but that draft pick would have to be a 1st for Treliving to bother picking up the phone.

[kobasew19]

Originally Posted by timbit

Tough to argue your points.

Sam, from my observations, has a major problem is in his game. The good news is that it can be remedied. It will take a lot of commitment and discipline from him and probably a lot of help from a qualified mental skills coach.

His mental skills ,look to me , to be his greatest liability. He has high expectations, I am sure, as he is very skilled and talented . However, Sam is easily distracted ( bad pass by a teammate , poor choice by himself, not playing as much as he thinks he deserves etc.}and as a result loses his focus. There is a direct correlation between positive mental energy and positive physical energy. ....negative mental energy and negative physical energy.

Pre game

Starting 18 hours before leaving for the rink for game ...8 five minute mental preparation sessions by himself focused on...

1) mental rehearsal - reviewing systems in all zones, special teams role and responsibilities, face off situations and responsibilities etc
Result- he is acting and reacting at top speed when the game starts. The game is to fast to think during the game.

2) mental imagery- building his own mental highlight film that he can see in his minds eye. Great things he has done in previous games..etc. Geeting jack about how good you are going to perform.

3) self talk- talking yourself and your game up based on when you are at your best.

IN GAME

1) PARK NEGATIVE ENERGY- Have a symbol on the butt end of your stick. Whether it be a bad call , bad play by teammate , opponent , something you didn’t like that was said by a coach...etc. Focus on the symbol and get rid of all of the ####ty thoughts by parking them on the symbol ,,,,takes focus. After every shift, as soon as you come back to bench.

2) RESET- inhale through nose- 4 seconds... hold for 4 seconds...exhale through mouth for 4 seconds.
3 Sets.

3) MENTAL IMAGERY again . Get excited about how good you are going to be next shift.

If you come off the ice and have a negative attitude regarding your last shift and do not use a routine to reset...you will regress the next shift.

To reiterate , the correlation is so strong between positive/ negative mental energy and positive / negative physical energy . It is quite amazing and scientifically proven.



Bottom line...doing the WORK before the game would allow Sam to be excited about how good he is going to be as opposed to worrying about mistakes and other useless things. The game would become fun for him again.

This unwillingness or ignorance of building a reliable mental preparation routine and in game “ stay in the moment “ routine ( between shifts) are some of the major reasons he looks so weak at times on his skates and takes so many undisciplined penalties. When he is “on” ...he is fast, strong on the puck , makes good plays, instinctively. These instances are few and far between. .

Interesting take, however to me, Sam lacks hockey sense. Sometimes he holds onto the puck way too long instead of moving the puck. I still love his determination and skillset, but I don't think he could get past that "thinking the game" limitation.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The first deal is fine. The second deal I would be calling for Tre's head on a platter.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would be calling for Tre's head on a platter for both of those trades. I realize some of you have a hard on for perennial 20 goal scorer (yawn) Mark Stone but that draft pick would have to be a 1st for Treliving to bother picking up the phone.

Oh good, so they aren't homer proposals then. Haha

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Oh good, so they aren't homer proposals then. Haha

2nd trade isn't terrible but one of Jankowski or Bennett would have to be removed. I just think Stone is really overvalued here.

[GoJetsGo]

Funny part is I think Buffalo would scoff at that offer. One attractive d-prospect that isn't certain to sign and two players who only have the potential to develop anywhere near as good as RoR. Not a homer proposal at all but I still don't think that would be enough for Buffalo. Someone could table a better offer than that if he's available.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Very good post. How many coaches have this kind of detail and knowledge on the mental part of the game?

This seems like a case where some really strong and effective coaching could really help a guy like Bennett.

Probably a lot more than we think. Understanding and embracing sports psychology is bigger than ever.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by timbit

1) mental rehearsal - reviewing systems in all zones, special teams role and responsibilities, face off situations and responsibilities etc
Result- he is acting and reacting at top speed when the game starts. The game is to fast to think during the game.
.

Tremendous post.

This part has actually questioning something i said earlier and thought i have seen from him.

I suspect he doesnt think the game very well, but perhaps he is actually just thinking it to much?

Akin to working hard but not working smart.

And I completely agree with you about his facial expressions/body language at times. It can be really bad, almost looks like he is pouting at points.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Probably a lot more than we think. Understanding and embracing sports psychology is bigger than ever.

It's a big part of the game. Gulutzan's biggest supporters on this site argue that he has implemented a system that allows Flames to get more high quality chances than the opposition, andd that the "win one for the Gipper" motivational speeches are for movies.

But Timbit's detailed post shows theer is a lot that can be done to mentally prepare individuals for performance. It's not all on Gulutzan, but let's face it, his title is "Head" Coach.

I sometimes wonder if the Flames are a very progressive organization. Certainly their in game product (outside of hockey) doesn't smell of an organization that is cutting edge in terms of entertaining its fans.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

2015-2016 CGY 77 18 18 36 -11
2016-2017 CGY 81 13 13 26 -16
2017-2018 CGY 82 11 15 26 -18

That's three complete seasons from Sam Bennett in the Nhl with pretty visible regression. By the stat test he is doing worse than nail yakupov and by the eye test he remains mecurial at best.

It's quite a long shot to think he'll be a top 6 player now. He has not shown that ability in ~250 games. 1/4 of Stajan career, and Stajan had better numbers.

This is the thing the big Bennett supporters love to completely ignore. They keep citing guys like Scheifele or the Sedins while completely ignoring that those players actually showed progressions from one year to the next. Probably the most worrying thing about Bennett is that he looked like a way better player at 19 than he does at 21. That is a major problem and that trend is almost always what ends up defining a bust. I sure as hell hope he figures out how to turn it around but confidence should be very low among every fan here. If we could somehow trick another GM to give us an Eberle level return then we should jump on that. Unfortunately I think there’s only one GM dumb enough to do that and they aren’t great trading partners for us.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

This is the thing the big Bennett supporters love to completely ignore. They keep citing guys like Scheifele or the Sedins while completely ignoring that those players actually showed progressions from one year to the next. Probably the most worrying thing about Bennett is that he looked like a way better player at 19 than he does at 21. That is a major problem and that trend is almost always what ends up defining a bust. I sure as hell hope he figures out how to turn it around but confidence should be very low among every fan here. If we could somehow trick another GM to give us an Eberle level return then we should jump on that. Unfortunately I think there’s only one GM dumb enough to do that and they aren’t great trading partners for us.

Oh geez, I wonder why that is? Different coach and significantly better linemates as a 19 year old? Then tossed out on the ice with complete junk for the entirety of 16/17, and then with a rookie centre and an AHL winger in '17/'18 while playing an offensively decrepit system?

You ignore circumstance, yet go on about why he "looks worse" in years 2 and 3? I question the way in which you've done your analysis, and wonder if some of it is founded in impatience?

I'm not giving Bennett, or anyone, a pass. To talk about regression while ignoring circumstance is such a useless argument - and giving up on a 21 year old after 3 seasons of development at the NHL level and one missed season is being impatient.