October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[indes]

Couldn't agree more with Iggy. I've been non union my entire life and I think it's pretty disingenuous to run to the unions now to "fight back". The only reason I'm not union is because of the high standard of labor laws that the unions got us in the first place. The people of Alberta need to band together, not wait for unions to strike and give up theirs while I keep mine and watch from the sidelines. Hopefully this gains more traction and more people who aren't following wake up to this overreach.

[5abi]

Unions have to give a coordinated response. Or they effectively lie down to it happening to them next time

[PepsiFree]

I don’t think it’s strange at all to suggest that unions, which:
- promised an “extreme” response
- have something the general public do not (built in organizing power)
- are attached to Alberta’s most critical industries and roles

Should have something to say and do here when the government has effectively stripped the rights of workers (the very thing unions exist to uphold).

Acknowledging that doesn’t mean that we’re letting Davi who works at McDonalds off the hook.

[Hot_Flatus]

If you work in Calgary this will be going on tomorrow at City hall. Take an early lunch and join in. If you want to support in other ways, please spread the word.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It’s not about “shrinking in the moment”, I’m just checking the unrealistic expectations people seem to have. Unions members don’t have the right to just strike on a whim and what many in this province are expecting of them needs far more support from the general population than just being keyboard warriors.

I would never shy away from fighting the absurdity that is the current ruling party but what you are expecting is going to have long term repercussions on the labour movement that you don’t appear to understand.

If the general public shows real proof that they care enough about the charter rights of teachers are being trampled by an ideologically driven government to do something of substance, I’ll change my tune. And I honestly hope that that happens. But based on recent developments in this province I highly doubt that the majority of the general public are willing to do much to help workers getting railroaded so long as it isn’t happening to them directly.

I'll preface this that I remember the 1997 Ontario strike in retaliation for Bill 160 had much broader public support with a much stronger teacher's union, yet in the end the teacher's union leaders were booed off the stage for not reaching any of its goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_O...hers%27_strike

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....-nov97-updates

Realistically, the ATA is in a much more precarious situation, and students walking out in protest isn't enough. The class size is the main sticking point

And in regards to class sizes, both in Ontario and BC, unions had to go to the court system. I don't see this being any different in Alberta.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...zes-ata-strike

In 2002, the B.C. government passed a bill trying to remove negotiation of class size and composition from teacher contracts — the BC Teachers’ Federation (BCTF) took them to court for 14 years.

Article content
In 2016, the Supreme Court of Canada confirmed the BCTF’s right to negotiate class size and composition.

It took 14 years for a decision.

I definitely agree that this really is more of a public response and pressure that is needed (not just protesting on a Sunday when convenient) than it is a union's responsibility, especially now that an action would be considered illegal and punitive.

Shifting responsibility of our children's education down to a union because we can't be bothered is dishonest. If people cared enough, the government would be forced to act.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CFO

I support early retirement.

I wish you'd phucking retire from CP

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

That was an excellent interview. Good on her.

Demetrios was clearly pandering to his base, two things I want to clear up here:
- the unprecedented population growth is due to UCP’s “Alberta is calling” campaign. He clearly tried to deflect their incompetence at anticipating population growth by blaming the feds as usual.
- we rejected enhanced mediation because they literally barred the mediator from discussing classroom size and complexity. Of course he wouldn’t mention that part.

I’m glad she didn’t take the bait to debating these with limited time, and moved on to tougher questions. Teacher retention will be a major problem. As already heard from some teachers here, lots of teachers considering early retirement. A buddy of mine who teaches internationally wanted to move back next year, but said he now won’t if Danielle remains as premier.

Phucking Immigrants............

[GGG]

Unions aren’t responsible for fighting for my concerns about class size. Where unions may want to act here is they have been legislated out of existence under this government.

If there is no consequence for the use of the NWC here then every public union fight will end with an imposed contract by the government. This is the most sympathetic union. People will care significantly less when AUPE is NWCd back to work.

This is the end of public unions under conservative governments if this isn’t defeated through union action, the ballot box or in the courts.

[Fuzz]

Once you account for annoying little details like inflation, a very different picture emerges: over the past decade per-student public education funding has actually declined by 17.5 per cent.

It was her UCP government, after all, that launched a paid “Alberta is calling” advertising campaign in the rest of the country that tried to attract people to the province — backed up by $5,000 in refundable tax credits for certain skilled trades...between 2022, when the campaign began, and the present, the population rose more than 10 per cent from under 4.5 million to over five million people

But the immigrants...

That’s in part because Alberta gives independent schools 70 per cent of the per-student funding that a public school receives, a far higher rate than in British Columbia (50 per cent) or Ontario (0 per cent). It’s also because Alberta is the only province that helps pay for the construction of new private schools, which can now access its recently announced $8.6 billion “Construction Accelerator Program.”

Oh look, you can fund them zero and not implode as a province. Wild stuff I've been told is impossible.

All of this is, as they say, a choice. Alberta could easily fund its public education system to at least the same extent as other provinces — and it could blow them out of the water if it really wanted to. Alberta could be dedicating more of its education dollars to reinforcing the public school system rather than creating new on-ramps for charter and private schools. And it could invest its oil and gas revenue in creating a true and lasting Alberta advantage: the most well-educated population in the country.

Sadly, it is a choice, and people keep choosing to vote for the same failed policies.

more than anything, it would require a government that’s able to entertain more expansive definitions of concepts like wealth and prosperity.

We clearly don’t have one of those right now. At some point, Albertans might want to consider finding one before it’s too late.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...-really-counts

Hahaha. Have you met Albertans? They'll eat horse paste again before recognizing that. Whole piece is a worth a read through. Sadly the people that need to read it won't.

[Doctorfever]

https://apple.news/AyzelBubJTRWoNQZZdW04Tw

The raise, I understand. A little something to offset 2020s inflation and the growing challenges in the classroom is fair. The imposed 12 per cent over four years doesn’t go overboard, either; it certainly doesn’t match 20 per cent over four years that the nurses got in April, and it’s more than the provincial judges’ nine per cent raise over 2021-24.
But it gets fuzzy when you start to unpack the ATA’s other numbers. Yes, there are classes of 40 students and more, which should be unacceptable. But it’s not the norm: the number of 40-plus classes in Edmonton Public Schools was only 41 last school year, and of those, the largest had 56 students. Classes in the 35-40 band were more common, at 788. Most classes were within the 21-30 range. If Edmonton’s public board is an indicator for the rest, then the problem isn’t as bad as it might sound to the uninitiated. (We can’t know this for sure, because Alberta stopped publishing provincewide data in 2019.)
It’s also not necessarily the case that 40- to 50-person classes will have just one teacher. In a CBC report last week, for example, one Calgary parent lamented his kids’ classes of 45 — which had two teachers. That’s divisible into two classes of 22 and 23. If the amalgamation is the result of a space shortage, well, the Alberta government is already in the midst of building numerous new schools to accommodate the influx. Indeed, in Calgary, the public school board requested four new schools in its 2023-26 capital plan; four new schools for the board are currently under construction, with 11 others in the planning and design phase.
There’s no escaping the lag effect, as it takes longer to build a school for 600 kids than it does to bring 600 kids into Alberta, whether from another province or another country.
Then there’s the language front. Edmonton Public Schools’ proportion of English learners went from 14 per cent in 2021-22 to an estimated 16 per cent in 2024-25. That’s an average of about 85 students who are learning English in each school. In that same time, refugee students grew from two per cent of the student body to 2.5 per cent. Overall, the province has gone from 114,000 English-learning students in 2020 to 136,000 in 2021, with refugee students rising from 10,000 to 14,000. Students with disabilities are trending upward, too. This phenomenon can be observed across the country.
Teachers aren’t publicly complaining about this in large numbers — nor are their unions — but they do air their grievances anonymously on Reddit.
“I hate my job right now…. I teach junior high. My homeroom has 41 kids. We keep getting more,” wrote one Alberta teacher in September 2024. Twelve of this person’s students had disabilities of some sort, and “13 are (English language learners). 9 of these kids are brand new to Canada in the last year or two. Again no support. No pullouts. No literacy intervention. No resources.”

I haven’t been following along much on the strike, but have tried to keep up a bit on CP.

If nurses received a 20% raise, maybe teachers should have received a bigger raise. Although most teachers seem to be saying it’s not about money, if they are getting paid more it would be easier to retain teachers and easier to hire more teachers.

Even though I have kids who have been missing out on school, I feel for the teachers on this one. It’s a tough spot to be put in when your class sizes are too large and you have an increasing number of students who have special needs and an increasing number who aren’t fluent in English.

High immigration numbers along with the Alberta Calling campaign have pushed class sizes higher, at a faster rate than the schools are getting built. I suspect it’s a problem that’s not exclusive to Alberta, but that doesn’t excuse it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by 5abi

Unions have to give a coordinated response. Or they effectively lie down to it happening to them next time

It's completely this. How could a public sector worker, in a union other than the ATA, see this and not think that this is them the next time their contract is up for negotiation?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://apple.news/AyzelBubJTRWoNQZZdW04Tw

I haven’t been following along much on the strike, but have tried to keep up a bit on CP.

If nurses received a 20% raise, maybe teachers should have received a bigger raise. Although most teachers seem to be saying it’s not about money, if they are getting paid more it would be easier to retain teachers and easier to hire more teachers.

Even though I have kids who have been missing out on school, I feel for the teachers on this one. It’s a tough spot to be put in when your class sizes are too large and you have an increasing number of students who have special needs and an increasing number who aren’t fluent in English.

High immigration numbers along with the Alberta Calling campaign have pushed class sizes higher, at a faster rate than the schools are getting built. I suspect it’s a problem that’s not exclusive to Alberta, but that doesn’t excuse it.

Cute that he doesn't even try to hide his finger pointing, it's right in the headline.

Jamie Sarkonak: The secret reason Alberta teachers went on strike — skyrocketing immigration

The secret reason your child is not getting the education they deserve is IMMIGRANTS. Not that the government has continuously underfunded education, lagged on school builds, and refuses to hire the number of teachers necessary to match population growth. "Immigration" isn't a problem, in and of itself. Particularly when you have a policy where you openly invite them. Failing to action it properly is. This is a failure in government. Making excuses is not helping. This is evidenced by the government forcing through a plan that fails to address the issues that have arisen due to their failures. Maybe point out all the ways the government has failed, since they are the only ones actually able to make decisions? Just a thought, Jamie, you ####ing hack.

This article proves once again, no one, anywhere, ever, should read the National Post if they want to be educated on issues.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think one reasons unions would be interested in an illegal strike right now is that we now know the government stance to dealing with unions in the future. It will be sign are offer or we legislate using the NWC.

So what you’re saying is that despite knowing without question how extreme this government will act against unions, we should prioritize giving them another excuse to abuse their power rather than focusing on doing everything we can to take that power away from them?

There’s a reason why I’ve been trying to warn people about these clowns and advocating against them for the better part of a decade. I’ve personally tried working with them on numerous occasions and the fact of the matter is they don’t give a #### about workers and will always do the dogmatic anti-democratic bidding of their corporate overlords.

That won’t change until people rise up in masses. Relying on a minority of the population who despite having clearly been right about standing against the values of that party and have lost significant power and resources because the majority of the population were fine with letting it happen is shortsighted and frankly hypocritical.

Maybe you should be asking the people who work in our province’s primary industry to walk off the job first since that would have more of an impact of the people who bought and paid for the UCP.

Until the people actually show that they will support unions in this kind of fight, unions need to use their resources tactfully. Becoming a sacrificial lamb by letting the government bait us into acting on emotion instead of logic doesn’t fall under that category.

I get that some people who’ve probably never had to fight for anything in their lives may be a little frustrated to hear that their theories on how unions they’ve historically opposed or never strongly supported should save the day aren’t practical. The bottom line is this: While Unions have proven themselves to be one of the most effective catalysts for change and standing up to oppression in modern history, they can’t do it as effectively without having the support of the masses backing them up. Despite what you might be lead to believe through social media algorithms, we’re not there yet.

That’s the bad news.

The good news is, a lot of people who for years we’ve been telling to WAKE UP appear to finally be starting to do so. If you’re one of them, great! Welcome to the party pal! Go wake some more people up and let’s put us all in a position to take these tyrants on and win!

How does that sound?

Perhaps they can wait to see if there is a political cost via recall but as of now public unions have lost all bargaining power as they will be NWCd back.

Unions ain’t gonna be relying on recall to fix anything because they know first hand how difficult getting 40% of a group of people signed up for something really is. That recall legislation has been garbage since the day it was tabled. The UCP knew it would likely never lead to any meaningful changes because they already had their similar union busting legislation as an example. But since enough people can’t seem to figure out the problems with that legislation the UCP exploited those same people and convinced many that this crap is actually giving us a reasonable shot at recalling anyone.

This is effectively Raegan vs the ATC which led to the decline of union power in the US

If you really believe that the ATC strike was the catalyst for the decline of Union power in the US then I really don’t understand what point you are trying to make by bringing that up as an example for why unions in Alberta should ban together and go out on an illegal strike in this current scenario or what outcome you’re expecting.

Actually what happened to the teachers is significantly worse. The ATC strike was illegal, it could have been avoided too but that’s a whole other discussion. It is however a good example of why you shouldn’t overplay your hand when deciding to strike, whether legally or illegally. The Reagan administration was thought to be pro-labour up until that point but as it turned out it was the beginning of the Republican Party’s shift to what we see now. The ATC didn’t expect them to go as extreme as they did because at the time there was no reason to believe that Reagan would do that. Do you think unions have the same faith in Smith and the UCP?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t think it’s strange at all to suggest that unions, which:
- promised an “extreme” response
- have something the general public do not (built in organizing power)
- are attached to Alberta’s most critical industries and roles

Should have something to say and do here when the government has effectively stripped the rights of workers (the very thing unions exist to uphold).

Acknowledging that doesn’t mean that we’re letting Davi who works at McDonalds off the hook.

The “extreme” response threat is short sighted in my opinion. Even though I believe they are acting with the best intentions and feel this is the best approach, that doesn’t change the fact that the AFL aren’t speaking on behalf of every Union or Union member in this province.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hard morning for me with my daughter. She has an anxiety disorder and the start of the school year is always one of the most challenging times. This disruption early in the school year just put us back at square 1. The poor thing was so stressed she vomited on the way to school. We came back home to clean up, and then she vomited again when we arrived at the front of the school. To her credit she then went in and started the day and so far has been able to stay.

But these are the ways this impacts kids. I'm sure there are thousands of other stories of families who are dealing with all sorts of these complexities and challenges today.

[Captain Otto]

So I've been emailing my MLA so much, he has requested a face to face meeting.

My biggest concern is that he will invoke the notwithstanding clause and violate my section 9 rights to have me arrested. Heck, I'm concerned they'd violate section 8 through 11 and through me in a gulag near Fort Mac.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If you work in Calgary this will be going on tomorrow at City hall. Take an early lunch and join in. If you want to support in other ways, please spread the word.

Hopefully there is a great turnout! During the Sask teachers strike, students stopped talking to their teachers because a basketball tournament had to be cancelled. I worry what nonsense some of these kids are hearing at home about who's in the right here, but I suppose that's happening regardless of the strike.

[Hot_Flatus]

I posted this in another thread, but its worth pointing out that the elections alberta website has been taken offline today....yet another horrifying overreach/obstruction of democratic rights as I'm assuming this is to stop further recall petitions from being filed.

[MonaTone]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I posted this in another thread, but its worth pointing out that the elections alberta website has been taken offline today....yet another horrifying overreach/obstruction of democratic rights as I'm assuming this is to stop further recall petitions from being filed.

Its genuinely impressive the cowardice that wannabe fascists show on the daily.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I posted this in another thread, but its worth pointing out that the elections alberta website has been taken offline today....yet another horrifying overreach/obstruction of democratic rights as I'm assuming this is to stop further recall petitions from being filed.

That is brutal

ChatGPT can outline the process but it is beyond greasy not to make the information on the process and the forms available