What I find gross is that they are "fundraising" to pay for their crimes. They made money from this, and they can't even reach into their money bin to pay it out.
All church money is fundraised. So like any business you attach a cause to it and use whatever branding works. I suspect you see reconciliation used as a headliner but if more than the 25 million is collected it just stays in the church.
The other issue here is how did a judge agree to the church put its best effort to pays in claims and therefore didn’t have to pay anymore. That that clause was part of the agreement and the court accepted it are quite problematic.
Essentially the state let the church off the hook for performing the states crimes.
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Things like these should be talked about A LOT more, this is what they should be teaching in schools.
I agree, but I think it should go a lot further and include history of the land even before European contact. Everyone in Canada should know what traditional territories they reside on and what customs, languages, and land uses were present before fur trade.
Other countries do this. In Europe for example, many countries were settled in more or less their current form after the Roman Empire fell in the period from between 400-1400 (with some border changes and jostling around of course), and the history curriculums go back thousands of years before that.
I get that much of the history was lost, but there is still a lot we know. It still irks me when I hear people refer to Indigenous Peoples as "hunter gatherer" societies as a way to downplay their importance (really just a euphemism for "savages"). The fact of the matter is, they had complex societies and specialization on par with the rest of the world. They had artists, poets, artisans, craftsmen, farmers, tailors, carpenters, teachers, healers, spiritual leader, traders, ambassadors, and the list goes on. But anyone who has taken Canadian history in school wouldn't know much about that.
I would venture a guess that at least half of Canadians do not have direct descendant connections to early colonial days, but we still have to learn about those Europeans. I don't see why that period has become a line where the curriculum has to stop.
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Just minutes after he was sworn in, Manitoba's new minister of Indigenous reconciliation and northern relations was directly challenged in the legislature building after he said those who ran residential schools "believed they were doing the right thing."
Residential schools were originally created by Christian churches and the Canadian government. The goals of these schools were to ‘civilize’ Indigenous peoples by forcibly converting them to Christianity, and to integrate them into Canadian society through a process of cultural, social, educational, economic and political assimilation.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the right thing"? The right thing for who?
I would venture that most of the people involved thought what they were doing was going to help. Either by 'civilizing' the kids or even saving their souls.
It's pretty rare to find someone who is doing something bad and actually thinks they're the bad guy. Most people, even some of the worst in history, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of other people or society at large. As the saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Which is why the dogmatic are so dangerous.
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I'd agree in that I believe people are doing the best they can based on what they believe to be true at that moment. More often than not, in retrospect, we discover what we thought was true, wasn't true in its entirety and we can learn from it. It's not like people figure out the best they can do in the moment and then dial it back 20% or so.
Whatever the people that were involved with running the residential school system believed was the right thing to do were wrong. Horribly wrong in many, and probably most, instances. We know that NOW. What is important, IMO, is that we are doing the right thing now based on what we believe to be true now. Inevitably, in the future, we will realize that the right things we do today could have been done better. Learn from it and do better at that time.
I'm not sure there is much benefit in having a debate about whether we believe or dis-believe they were doing the right thing back then.
I would venture that most of the people involved thought what they were doing was going to help. Either by 'civilizing' the kids or even saving their souls.
It's pretty rare to find someone who is doing something bad and actually thinks they're the bad guy. Most people, even some of the worst in history, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of other people or society at large. As the saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Which is why the dogmatic are so dangerous.
Hitler thought what he was doing was right, and just. No one tries to defend that position, so I don't think a minister should be making a statement like that today, with what we know now. Even if residential schools were 100% good intentions(which I don't believe), what value is there to say it? It's boneheaded.
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They did believe they were doing the right thing. It’s revisionist history to pretend otherwise.
Or is this an issue where we’ve decided the truth of a statement isn’t important?
Are you using the royal "we"? You frequently refer to a mysterious collective "we" and I never know to which shady cabal you are referring?
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I would venture that most of the people involved thought what they were doing was going to help. Either by 'civilizing' the kids or even saving their souls.
It's pretty rare to find someone who is doing something bad and actually thinks they're the bad guy. Most people, even some of the worst in history, thought what they were doing was for the betterment of other people or society at large. As the saying goes: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Which is why the dogmatic are so dangerous.
I look forward to re-vamping our entire criminal justice system... as long as the perpetrator believed he was doing something good or that it would be of benefit at some point in the future...
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I'm not sure what you mean by "the right thing"? The right thing for who?
Those priests sticking their dicks in all those children believed they were doing "the right thing".
Those clergy and nuns that threw those poor kids in some unmarked grave without telling their families what ever happened to their beloved little children thought they were doing "the right thing".
GTFOH to anyone that tries to rationalize any of that genocide.
They thought "the right thing" was white supremacy. No different than when you hear Grandpa or anyone else spout that old time racism. You call it what it is. Being a white supremist 100 years ago vs now doesn't make any difference. It was vile then, it's vile today, no matter who else is doing it.
Last edited by Johnny199r; 07-15-2021 at 02:33 PM.
It’s funny how much ####ting on religion has gone on in this thread when the notion of collective guilt and atonement is unheard of outside Christian cultures.
Allow me to rain more deserved #### upon religion. It's exactly how to get otherwise decent people to do horrific acts, some of the worst kind outlined in this thread. Human decency is not derived from religion, it precedes it.
Truly disgusting how someone can come into this thread and cry about the criticism of the church being unfair. Magical beliefs sure make people say and do some strange things.
Allow me to rain more deserved #### upon religion. It's exactly how to get otherwise decent people to do horrific acts, some of the worst kind outlined in this thread. Human decency is not derived from religion, it precedes it.
Truly disgusting how someone can come into this thread and cry about the criticism of the church being unfair. Magical beliefs sure make people say and do some strange things.
And yet religious organizations comprise a huge amount of the world’s humanitarian aid. Atheist people throw a couple of bucks in a container at the circle K, and feel good
