Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Shrewd Jets...lottery winners and haven't won a playoff game in franchise history. On their 7th rebuild at least.

LOL. Jets are elite. Something the flames haven't been since the 1980s.

If patience gets you high picks which gets you an elite cup contender sign me up.

I'd trade the flames entire roster for the jets in a heartbeat.

[Steve Bozek]

I don’t understand how the Hamilton trade can be criticized. 1st round picks can be a crapshoot-even in the top 5. We gave up a 1st round pick to get a successful player who had been a 1st round pick. He filled a perceived need. End of story.
If he no longer fills a need for the Flames you trade him, and probably could get at least what the Flames gave up to get him.

[Erick Estrada]

The Hamilton trade was a trade you make every time and if they put him on the trading block this offseason they would get offers far higher than what they original paid to acquire him. I just feel he rolled the dice one too many times with the Hamonic deal as he's not nearly as good of a player and it's more the type of deal a team makes when they feel they are in a Stanley Cup winning window.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Shrewd Jets...lottery winners and haven't won a playoff game in franchise history. On their 7th rebuild at least.

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

I don’t understand how the Hamilton trade can be criticized. 1st round picks can be a crapshoot-even in the top 5. We gave up a 1st round pick to get a successful player who had been a 1st round pick. He filled a perceived need. End of story.
If he no longer fills a need for the Flames you trade him, and probably could get at least what the Flames gave up to get him.

I'm not criticising it. I'm just saying it's not a no brainer do over. 2 years later, I think seeing the quality of the roster built, perhaps the flames would be fine just using the picks.

I'll stop my argument here. My fundamental crux of the argument is that Teams that aren't good should never trade 1st rounders.

[Royle9]

I wish the Flames would come out and announce the termination of GG before the season finishes, it would at least give me some viewing pleasure knowing hes not behind the bench forcing the players to play a system that goes against EVERYTHING he said he was going to fix the day he was hired.

It's all I've got left to hope for in terms of salvation.
I'd even let the training staff run the ship for the last 8 games, the boys seem to respect their work ethic.

[red sky]

Hindsight, the Hamonic trade was an extreme disappointment. If Hamomic can convince Tavaras to play for the Flames then it is great trade otherwise its a flop. So a flop.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some of the best players in the league play on teams that suck. It's a terrible argument to say it's a bad deal because the Flames wouldn't be that much worse.

Trading picks for a young player and trading picks for a rental are very different situations. Hamilton was about to be offer sheeted it's not like BT was way off base.

How did Boston do giving after up Hamilton?

When they analyzed their situation they were a bubble team that just missed the playoffs.

They did not see Hamilton as a key piece worth a 5.8x6 contract. They did not get direct value from the players they drafted but right now they are waiting to play a home playoff game.

Would they want a do a do over on the trade?? Would having Hamilton for the last 3 years make them a better team now?

[SuperMatt18]

My biggest fault of Treliving is that we built a team that lacks speed at forward.

Gaudreau - Fast
Monahan - Average
Ferland - Average
Tkachuk - Average
Backlund - Quick
Frolik - Average ( I feel like his skating took a step back this year)
Bennett - Quick
Jankowski - Average
Hathaway - Average
Versteeg - Slow
Stajan - Slow
Brouwer - Slow
Lazar - Quick

We have maybe 1 forward per line that you can maybe even describe as "quick" and I feel like only really Gaudreau plays fast, and then a bunch of average to slow guys.

So we have a forward group that isn't that big, doesn't play that physical, and is slow.

[Hot_Flatus]

In my opinion Tre is a great asset manager and typically wins far more trades than he loses because of it. However, that only get's you so far in the NHL today. He bombed hard on the Hamonic trade, which really sucks considering the team could have leveraged those picks in trades to improve the team again this off season.

If he is not willing to make some actual hockey trades this year, sign a top end player, this team is doomed to continue its cycle of mediocrity.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Hamilton trade was a trade you make every time and if they put him on the trading block this offseason they would get offers far higher than what they original paid to acquire him. I just feel he rolled the dice one too many times with the Hamonic deal as he's not nearly as good of a player and it's more the type of deal a team makes when they feel they are in a Stanley Cup winning window.

The only issue is it isn't just the picks, its also 6 million to pay him.

We could have signed a FA with the $$ and then used the picks on players.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The only issue is it isn't just the picks, its also 6 million to pay him.

We could have signed a FA with the $$ and then used the picks on players.

You dont generally get players like Hamilton in free agency for 5.5 million. Free agency doesn't work out for teams quite often

[Monahammer]

Lol revisionist history abound in here.

The Hamilton trade was larceny. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Sure Barzal was on the board, but he wasn't even picked with any of the picks we traded, who knows if we would have taken him (lol, unlikely given our history of picking out talent like that). Hamilton is the cornerstone of our defense moving forward. I also think his "defensive deficiencies" are entirely overblown- they're a result of the guy playing top competition with gio under a microscope, while simultaneously not having any of the faith of the coaching staff (who seem to bury him whenever possible)
Gio makes some dumb mistakes too- no one climbs all over him for them. It's the reality of playing high speed against the best players in the world.

Brodie makes far worse decisions, and I think has proven to be harder to cover for. Hamonic has been passing the eye test with flying colours lately and that pair still seems to suck. I personally would make the hamonic trade over again too.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The only issue is it isn't just the picks, its also 6 million to pay him.

We could have signed a FA with the $$ and then used the picks on players.

Hamilton's contract is ####ing amazing compared to some of his comparables. I have no idea who you think we could sign for 5.5 million that would even come close.

Edit: here's a comparison for you. Subban and dougie have the exact same amount of even strength points. Subban is on a team that scores far more.

[Erick Estrada]

Yeah Hamilton is great value at his current contract. Look what Subban is getting paid for example or even Giordano.

[bubbsy]

Hamilton is a fine dman, and absolutely on good value contract.

My doubt with the move is if a team still in the crawl phase of the rebuild (they just crept into the playoffs the year before that draft) can afford to be trading away 1st and multiple 2nd picks.

What I'm hearing as a rebuttal is that Hamilton is good value for the assets exchanged, which is an argument I can accept, though I don't know if a 100% agree.

[CliffFletcher]

Offence is only half the game.

Hamilton is a trainwreck in his own end. Missed assignments, bad reads, terrible penalties. He might be the worst d-man on the roster at defending 1 on 1. There's a reason he doesn't get a sniff at the PK. If you add up the goals Hamilton has scored in the last 20 games and compare the goals scored against the Flames that were the result of penalties or missed assignments by Hamilton, I'm skeptical he's even above even.

People need to stop deluding themselves about Hamilton. We remember Dion Phaneuf, don't we? This guy is Phaneuf part deux.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to stop deluding themselves about Hamilton. We remember Dion Phaneuf, don't we? This guy is Phaneuf part deux.

Come on. They aren't even comparable.

The people deluding themselves here aren't Hamilton supporters.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah we have enough actually bad players that contribute nothing (Brouwer, Stone).

We don't need to start trashing the guys that actually help this team (Monahan, Hamilton).

[bubbsy]

If people are ok with price paid for Hamilton then I think once hamonic is moved away from Brodie, perhaps there shouldn't be too much complaining about his trade either. Hamonic looks to be a decent defensive dman.

[Inglewood Jack]

Dougie Hamilton, 24 year old NHL leader in defenseman goals and +6 on the year, is the team's worst defender and Phaneuf 2.0. the quality of analysis here is going down the drain just as fast as the Flames playoff hopes.