[Trade] Flames get Travis Hamonic + 4th for a 1st and 2x2nds

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

GranteedEV... your desire to draw a conclusion on a player, and then beat the drum like there is no tomorrow, is beyond ridiculous. Defense is an art, and finding partners that work, and settling into a system, takes time.

Let it go. Hamonic is a good defenseman. But I do think he and Brodie need to be split up.

Enoch Root... your desire to draw a conclusion on a player who has a few aesthetic traits you like, and then beat the ad hominem drum like there is no tomorrow, is equally ridiculous. This isn't the first time you've failed to rebut a claim with anything other than calling out a poster for having an opinion that irritates you.

[SeanCharles]

Hamonic is one our best 5-6 defenseman. Just like Hamilton we should wait until we judge. He needs to get fully in sync with the team and system before we decide.

I agree it wasn't as satisfying of a trade as Hamilton cause he was not as young and offensively dynamic. Yet he deserves more time before we lay any judgement on his acquisition.

Brodie is the guy on defence who has really struggled. Give Hamonic a bit of time.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If we're doing a direct comparisson, there should have been some net gains by now running Brodie and Hamoinc together for 26 games. Nothing. In fact the longer this has gone on, the more Brodie has regressed. Now thats not to hang it on Hamonic but if your guy who has been the #2 player on your defensive roster for more than 3 seasons now falls of a cliff performance wise, it has long been past the time to right the ship. Nevermind if Hamoinc doesn't get rolling at that price tag, if Brodie doesn't roll, this team is doomed. and what should have been that fabled on paper top 5 will go down far worse than whatever happened when Bouwmeester was brought on board.

Brodie and Stone had from the deadline to the end of the season to get rolling and they did just fine.

Sure theres a few weeks to go to get this sorted, But for Brodies sake and the teams sake, this should have been done a while ago.

not disagreeing with this at all. Just saying that I don't believe any rookie we have could be playing better then what Hamonic is giving us

[Husky]

Originally Posted by dammage79

If we're doing a direct comparisson, there should have been some net gains by now running Brodie and Hamoinc together for 26 games. Nothing. In fact the longer this has gone on, the more Brodie has regressed. Now thats not to hang it on Hamonic but if your guy who has been the #2 player on your defensive roster for more than 3 seasons now falls of a cliff performance wise, it has long been past the time to right the ship. Nevermind if Hamoinc doesn't get rolling at that price tag, if Brodie doesn't roll, this team is doomed. and what should have been that fabled on paper top 5 will go down far worse than whatever happened when Bouwmeester was brought on board.

Brodie and Stone had from the deadline to the end of the season to get rolling and they did just fine.

Sure theres a few weeks to go to get this sorted, But for Brodies sake and the teams sake, this should have been done a while ago.

Regressed? Brodie offense is trending for his highest point season yet. Brodie is a slick skating offensive D. He will never be solid defensively. He will generate numerious offensive chances but at the same time have big turnovers. With Brodie you have to take the highs and lows.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Cortez

not disagreeing with this at all. Just saying that I don't believe any rookie we have could be playing better then what Hamonic is giving us

I do, Rasmus Andersson. I think he showed that in Camp. And in his 2 games while Hamoinc was hurt. Would have saved us some much needed currency to use at the deadline or a really really nice pick in a deep draft.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Husky

Regressed? Brodie offense is trending for his highest point season yet. Brodie is a slick skating offensive D. He will never be solid defensively. He will generate numerious offensive chances but at the same time have big turnovers. With Brodie you have to take the highs and lows.

Nah, he's been much better overall prior, he's getting worse despite putting up career points projections. And the lows are getting lower too, I just don't know what to say other than that. I LOVE TJ brodie, but this isn't TJ Brodie this year despite the points going up. It's alomst like they're trying to shoehorn him into something he isn't. PP1 doesn't need a great passer on the point when Gaudreau is right there running the puck 75% of the time anyway. Which is where his points inflation is coming from I assume anyways.

[Flash Walken]

I don't understand. Is hamonic bad or is Gulutzan bad? Are they both bad? Does that then make Treliving bad?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't understand. Is hamonic bad or is Gulutzan bad? Are they both bad? Does that then make Treliving bad?

The price to get Hamonic was bad, Gulutzan is bad for forcing Hamonic and Brodie to suffer together, and Hamoinc is bad by default for making Brodie worse than he is and because he cost too darned much for what the team is getting after 26 games when something should have shown to be better.

If all that bad adds up to a bad season, Treliving will be looked upon as bad when the Isles win the draft lottery and grab stud D man Dahlen. Much egg on face, such sad.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't understand. Is hamonic bad or is Gulutzan bad? Are they both bad? Does that then make Treliving bad?

On CalgaryPuck everyone is bad.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The price to get Hamonic was bad, Gulutzan is bad for forcing Hamonic and Brodie to suffer together, and Hamoinc is bad by default for making Brodie worse than he is and because he cost too darned much for what the team is getting after 26 games when something should have shown to be better.

If all that bad adds up to a bad season, Treliving will be looked upon as bad when the Isles win the draft lottery and grab stud D man Dahlen. Much egg on face, such sad.

Or we could have paid a first round pick for a D that never plays for our team (oilers)

Yes i know, comparing ourself to the oilers is no good- but there were multiple teams that wanted Hamonic. (and no other ones that I know of that wanted Reinhert)

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I do, Rasmus Andersson. I think he showed that in Camp. And in his 2 games while Hamoinc was hurt. Would have saved us some much needed currency to use at the deadline or a really really nice pick in a deep draft.

Bartkowski would likely play most nights if we didn't have Hamonic. I agree I like Andersson but there is no denying Hamonic is one of our best defenders and Andersson needs to earn his spot.

I like our top 6 and top 7 when I consider Andersson as the #7. Bart is 8 in my mind and he will be gone as soon as his contract is up.

We can use our defensive depth to trade for help on RW hopefully. We have Andersson, Kylington, Fox, Valimaki and even Wotherspoon waiting in the wings.

[Itse]

I'm willing to see if another coach can sort out defense out. Right now none our D are looking as good as they should.

That said, Hamonic is looking like an unnecessary acquisition. Would much rather play Anderson or even Bartkowski and have the picks.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am fine with Hamonic. He gets a pass from me for two reasons:

1) Most of the defence are playing poorly - Giordano excluded.

2) He is new to the team. If Hamilton, Brodie, Stone, Kulak/Bartkowski are still making terrible mistakes out there even though they should be much more familiar with the system, how can I justify lumping Hamonic in there as well given that he is new?

[Poe969]

Fire GG
Try new pairs: Gio & Brodie, Hamilton & Harmonic, Stone & Kulak
Maybe shuffle second and third pair. If thing don't improyafter all that, trade for forward and improve D from within with prospects

[cofias]

The problem with doing the "Hamilton comparison" and saying he needs time to get back up to his former elite level of play after an adjustment period is that Hamonic was never really that good to begin with. He is not anything close to an elite defenseman. I'm not sure there is all that much more there than what he is showing currently. I mean, what are you guys expecting from Hamonic that he isn't doing right now?

I still don't hate the trade itself that much because at the time I believed those picks would be quite low, but it's certainly looking worse with every day especially since it kind of locked us into a position where we can't play Brodie on the right side without trading someone or moving one of our RHD to their off side.

It's getting a bit worrying with these personnel decisions where Treliving goes out and shopping for anchors with "grit" and "leadership" like Brouwer and now Hamonic. Every piece of hard evidence is saying that it's a bad idea but he does it anyway, and then it predictably blows up in his face. Just get better hockey players instead, and save money and/or trading chips in the process. Luckily Hamonic's contract is at least very team friendly. Maybe we can con some other team into taking him on if things get even worse.

[CliffFletcher]

The notion that NHL players take half a season to adjust to a new team or new coach is one of the weirder memes on this forum. It's not even that old - I think it started with Hamilton - but it has quickly become regarded as some kind of hockey truism.

[dissentowner]

Hamonic has been fine, hard to look good when your D partner has no damn clue how to play D.

[Toonage]

Guarantee you Hamonic would look like an all star playing with Gio. Might even look like that playing with Kulak. That we haven't seen either of those pairings even on a few occasions is troubling.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The price to get Hamonic was bad, Gulutzan is bad for forcing Hamonic and Brodie to suffer together, and Hamoinc is bad by default for making Brodie worse than he is and because he cost too darned much for what the team is getting after 26 games when something should have shown to be better.

If all that bad adds up to a bad season, Treliving will be looked upon as bad when the Isles win the draft lottery and grab stud D man Dahlen. Much egg on face, such sad.

I like this post, perhaps organizationally that needs to be the goal. Even if they just squeak into the playoffs, to avoid that pick becoming a lottery special.

Alternatively if they really go downhill, then they will have to somehow recoup a first pick and more, it will probably cost them at least a player like Backlund. For them to not make the playoffs this year without a healthy dose of draft picks would be an unmitigated disaster.

There could be some very hard and potentially franchise altering decisions to make this year, not the least of which is the head coach position. As to the GM, certainly Treliving has made some mistakes, but it does take awhile to learn the job and he shows potential, unless you have someone better available he should stay.

Look at Garth Snow, at this point point it looks like he fleeced both the Oilers and the Flames! For awhile he was considered the worst GM in the league.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The price to get Hamonic was bad, Gulutzan is bad for forcing Hamonic and Brodie to suffer together, and Hamoinc is bad by default for making Brodie worse than he is and because he cost too darned much for what the team is getting after 26 games when something should have shown to be better.

So how did you come to the conclusion that it's hamonic making brodie look bad? Brodie has struggled with every partner not named Gio, he doesn't seem capable of making the players he plays with better at all. I've seen an awful lot of bad decision making in Brodies part this year that cannot be blamed on the other players on the ice.