2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's exactly what a rebuild is like. You draft and play young players with promise and hope they develop into something. While you do that you use middle of the road retreads to support those young players and provide "leadership." It's painful, it's ugly, and it's not much fun.

Nonsense. I can say without question that I had more fun watching the team play in 2013-2016 with all the fun young players than I have from 2017-2021 watching those young players stall out and flatline.

Rebuilds can be fun. You get high picks every year and an exciting new player to look forward to. You cheer for your young players to do well and you don’t get upset with the losses.

I’ll take that over spinning our tires in 7th-10th place every year and maybe making the playoffs to be first round fodder.

Fans can be sold on two things: success and hope. Right now the Flames are selling us on neither, and it’s looking like success is going to be impossible to sell, so why not try again and start selling hope? I bet Ottawa fans are having more fun than we are this season.

[Red]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I was listening to Jim "Boomer" Gordon this morning and he made a good point. If you look at the top 20 scorers this season, all but 3 are former 1st round draft picks. In the top 10 only one (Mark Stone picked 178th) is not a former 1st rounder.

IF the Flames are pulling the plug on this season soon, I'd like to see some 1st round picks coming back for the players that are shipped out.

Half of the Flames top 6 are top 10 draft picks. Damn, we are bucking all trends.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by browntrout

It's time to pay the piper, whether it's BT or a new GM the team needs to rebuild or trade for an star centre(highly unlikely) Take your lumps build through the draft. This core has proven they are not championship calibre, what's the point? I can't speak for everyone on this board, but I would be more excited about a rebuilding team then this continued medicority.

You don't necessarily need to go scorched earth to rebuild though. The key to being successful long term is knowing when to cash out on assets, and to not trade future pieces for short term pieces. That's the biggest mistake Treliving made on pieces like Hamonic, Smith, and Elliott.

Honestly the best course of action would be to do what a team like Boston did after the 14-15 season when they traded Lucic and some other pieces for draft picks.

Determine the people you want to keep as the long term problem, identify the pieces you think can be solutions longer term, and trade the rest for futures.

IMO I'd be keeping the following pieces.

Tkachuk
Lindholm
Mangiapane
Dube
Zary
Pelletier

These are the 6 forwards that you probably frame your top 9 around moving forward. Probably Lucic as part of the group just since they are going to be hard to move at their current contracts. Phillips and Ruzicka as guys on the farm that could maybe step in too longer term.

Tanev
Hanifin
Andersson
Valimaki

That gives you 4/6 dmen set for the future. Tanev probably would love being moved which is why he stays, plus he's been great this year.

Markstrom

Honestly if a team would want to trade for him I'd be willing to move him, but goalies are tough to move so I think he has to stay.

That means in the next 12 months they should be moving:

Gaudreau - 1X $6.75M
Monahan - 2 X $6.375M
Backlund - 3 x $5.35M
Ryan (UFA)


Bennett (RFA)
Leivo (UFA)

Giordano - 1 x $6.75M
Nesterov (UFA)

Rittich (UFA)

The only way you don't sell on all these guys if if you can somehow upgrade one of the forwards (Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm) and other pieces to turn them into Eichel. If not then do a real re-tool and trade the other pieces for Futures.

I still think the first deal I'd be making is Giordano to Toronto.

If we are retooling then give Gio the chance to go win a cup and re-unite with Brodie (man would it hurt to see those two win a cup as a pair in Toronto though).

Mark Giordano 50% Retained
Sam Bennett
for
Alex Kerfoot
Justin Holl
Nick Robertson

I liked the other deal that somebody else had yesterday too with Florida who can use Forward depth but a slight tweak.

Monahan
for
Anton Lundell

Then maybe for Gaudreau I think the Carolina Hurricanes would be the dark horse for his services and they try to go all-in for the next two seasons.

Gaudreau
for
Seth Jarvis
Jamieson Rees
2021 1st Round Pick

Imagine if you could add Lundell, Robertson, and Jarvis to the team's prospect pool....that should be the goal if we are moving Monahan, Gaudreau, and Gio.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

That is what I am saying is the problem.

We look at a 30 odd game set and think that is how things are all the time.

Andersson is part of this teams future and I, for one, will be pissed if we trade him. Valimaki too.

Flames shouldn't be trading these players but if the team wants to retool on the fly they are assets that could help bring in a badly needed top 6 forward but then you are robbing peter to pay paul continuing the trend of mediocrity. I just think the best course is to build around Markstrom, Tanev, Hanafin, Valimaki, and Anderson and pretty well scrap the core forward group for as many young forward prospects and high draft picks you can get. The next few seasons would pretty much be a hardworking low skill team that can bide time while those young forwards develop. Flames now have the head coach that is perfect for that type of team. Hopefully by the opening of the arena you have a team with a solid veteran goaltender, veteran blueline and some young up and coming forwards.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You don't necessarily need to go scorched earth to rebuild though. The key to being successful long term is knowing when to cash out on assets, and to not trade future pieces for short term pieces. That's the biggest mistake Treliving made on pieces like Hamonic, Smith, and Elliott.

Honestly the best course of action would be to do what a team like Boston did after the 14-15 season when they traded Lucic and some other pieces for draft picks.

Determine the people you want to keep as the long term problem, identify the pieces you think can be solutions longer term, and trade the rest for futures.

IMO I'd be keeping the following pieces.

Tkachuk
Lindholm
Mangiapane
Dube
Zary
Pelletier

These are the 6 forwards that you probably frame your top 9 around moving forward. Probably Lucic as part of the group just since they are going to be hard to move at their current contracts. Phillips and Ruzicka as guys on the farm that could maybe step in too longer term.

Tanev
Hanifin
Andersson
Valimaki

That gives you 4/6 dmen set for the future. Tanev probably would love being moved which is why he stays, plus he's been great this year.

Markstrom

Honestly if a team would want to trade for him I'd be willing to move him, but goalies are tough to move so I think he has to stay.

That means in the next 12 months they should be moving:

Gaudreau - 1X $6.75M
Monahan - 2 X $6.375M
Backlund - 3 x $5.35M
Ryan (UFA)
Bennett (RFA)
Leivo (UFA)

Giordano - 1 x $6.75M
Nesterov (UFA)

Rittich (UFA)

The only way you don't sell on all these guys if if you can somehow upgrade one of the forwards (Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm) and other pieces to turn them into Eichel. If not then do a real re-tool and trade the other pieces for Futures.

I still think the first deal I'd be making is Giordano to Toronto.

If we are retooling then give Gio the chance to go win a cup and re-unite with Brodie (man would it hurt to see those two win a cup as a pair in Toronto though).

Mark Giordano 50% Retained

for

Alex Kerfoot
Nick Robertson

I think Monahan and Gio are going to prove to be very difficult to unload...but I do agree with the majority of your comment

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Hard to move players with term at the trade deadline these days when cap is king. Especially ones that are not producing.

Yeah, I guess the main thing might be to not ship out any 1sts in pursuit of a guy like Eichel. Even though I'd love to see him in Calgary.

[Young Guns]

Guess I don't see what most do in Valimaki. Seems to get rocked several times a game, turns the puck over, takes harmless shots on net when guys are wide open. Just don't see him becoming a top 2 d-man.

Also not sure if the Flames would entertain being in the middle of a rebuild when they move into the new building.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I bet Ottawa fans are having more fun than we are this season.

Yeah, ask them about the previous three when they sucked so badly and didn't win 30 games in any of those seasons. This season is likely to not be much better. Yeah, they'll beat the #### out the Calgary Flames, but we're playing 2010 hockey on the 2020s. Ottawa is still going to miss and the only thing they have to sell is that hope angle. A hope angle that will be going on year five. Again, this fan base couldn't stand the Young Guns era, I doubt many of you will be around here very long should we start going through it again.

[RedHawk12]

Valimaki's still young and has a ton of upside. He definitely has potential to be a top pair guy but I don't think he's ever going to be a true elite #1.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

Guess I don't see what most do in Valimaki. Seems to get rocked several times a game, turns the puck over, takes harmless shots on net when guys are wide open. Just don't see him becoming a top 2 d-man.

Also not sure if the Flames would entertain being in the middle of a rebuild when they move into the new building.

It's just his first season in the NHL. For any young defenseman to come in and play 15 minutes every night in his first season is a pretty good start to his career. He's had his moments of rookie mistakes but I believe he has top 4 potential and maybe even top 2 one day. Evan Bouchard can't even crack the Oilers lineup and he was a top 10 pick.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

Guess I don't see what most do in Valimaki. Seems to get rocked several times a game, turns the puck over, takes harmless shots on net when guys are wide open. Just don't see him becoming a top 2 d-man.

Also not sure if the Flames would entertain being in the middle of a rebuild when they move into the new building.

Yea I guess every top tier dman looked as such at 22 years old in their first season getting no PP time.

If you actually paid attention to his game you would see he makes effective breakout passes, has very good offensive vision and doesn’t panic in his own end.

The untapped potential is there.

[CliffFletcher]

Valimaki is also one of the few players on the team who didn’t wilt in the Avs series.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Tkachuk is also the one who would likely return a blue-chip young core player. The Blues have some good young pieces in Kyrou and Thomas, and (unlike Ottawa) actually could use a LW in their top six.

Oh man, this is definitely going to become the new Johnny to PHI.

capfriendly is showing STL w/ zero capspace now or deadline. They have a lot of LTIR so I'm not sure how that plays out with trades? Presumably they could just send back the Steen expiring contract?

They do have more flexibility next year. I wonder what kind of deals Thomas/Kyrou will be looking at. One presumes bridges. Kyrou's sample size is small so maybe they think they are selling high? I'd prefer Thomas despite his down numbers/injury this year...he's only been back for 1 game now.


Husso's numbers are awful, so I could imagine they might be keen on Rittich 50% retain.

[Vinny01]

Eklund again discussing Hall to the Flames soon or in the summer

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, ask them about the previous three when they sucked so badly and didn't win 30 games in any of those seasons. This season is likely to not be much better. Yeah, they'll beat the #### out the Calgary Flames, but we're playing 2010 hockey on the 2020s. Ottawa is still going to miss and the only thing they have to sell is that hope angle. A hope angle that will be going on year five. Again, this fan base couldn't stand the Young Guns era, I doubt many of you will be around here very long should we start going through it again.

You have to suck some years in order to look good long term.

Do you think Avs fans are enjoying their seasons right now? Of course they are. But they’ve also had their ups and downs. They were an extremely volatile group in the last decade. Starting in 2013 when we drafted Monahan and them MacKinnon. I started it in 2013 because that’s when we officially started to rebuild:

2013 - 29th, missed playoffs (drafted MacKinnon 1st OA)
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 21st (drafted Rantanen 10th OA)
2016 - 21st
2017 - 30th, last in the league (drafted Makar 4th OA)
2018 - 18th, made playoffs
2019 - 17th, made playoffs (drafted Byram and Newhook)
2020 - 3rd
2021 - Top 5 team in the league
- And with a bright future ahead.

So it’s been a long time coming for the Avs and their fans. Years 15/16/17 weren’t exactly the best of times for them, considering they had drafted a superstar in MacKinnon but weren’t getting anywhere (aside from their ‘14 season anomaly).

I included some of the first round pick players that are now impact players for them. We need to start grabbing a few more firsts within the next few years to just really stock the cupboards and hope we strike gold on a couple.

We’re a team in need of a retool, one where players will buy into Sutter’s system. Gio, Gaudreau, and Monahan need to go. Ryan, Bennett, and Rittich could also be potentially traded as pending UFA’s.

We’re not the most patient fan base, but there are tweaks that need to be made. And I’m willing to watch this team through the thick and thin of things. Like N E B said, we don’t have hope nor success. The easier one to shoot for is hope at this point.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Eklund again discussing Hall to the Flames soon or in the summer

I have had this weird feeling for some time that RNH or Hall will one day be Flames.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have had this weird feeling for some time that RNH or Hall will one day be Flames.

Trade Backlund and replace with RNH is fine by me.

[Cowtownred]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have had this weird feeling for some time that RNH or Hall will one day be Flames.

From what I have seen, RNH plays with a bit of bite. He is welcome here.

[Monahammer]

It's 2021 and we're discussing trading Johnny and Mony while signing Hall and RNH.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Red

Half of the Flames top 6 are top 10 draft picks. Damn, we are bucking all trends.

The Flames only really have 4 true top 6 players.

Arguments can be made on Backlund, Mangiapane and Dube but the latter two are still developing and working towards that IMO and Backlund has always been more suited as the 3rd line C to me.

We can get into a debate about how you define a top 6 player but to me those three aren’t quite there.

I do think Mangiapane and Dube can get there and are getting close.

Maybe the Flames should try out a top 6 of:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

1st group can play a high pace skill game and the 2nd group can muck things up along the boards, cycle the puck and mix up the regular forward pairings that have seriously gone stale.