I doubt there's any debate on M113 and Hummer being inferior to IFV's, it's why I specifically said motorized infantry (instead of for example mechanized) because I'm quite aware that these are not for fighting.
I guess you could compare this stuff to donating things like helmets and vests. It doesn't sound like much, but it's still absolutely crucial stuff when we're talking the big picture of war. Especially on the offensive, you want all the troop movement capability you can get, and you're a lot more likely to get enough troops to where they need to be if they're driving M113s and Hummers instead of Kleinbuses and HiAces.
Right, Taxis
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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I doubt there's any debate on M113 and Hummer being inferior to IFV's, it's why I specifically said motorized infantry (instead of for example mechanized) because I'm quite aware that these are not for fighting.
I guess you could compare this stuff to donating things like helmets and vests. It doesn't sound like much, but it's still absolutely crucial stuff when we're talking the big picture of war. Especially on the offensive, you want all the troop movement capability you can get, and you're a lot more likely to get enough troops to where they need to be if they're driving M113s and Hummers instead of Kleinbuses and HiAces.
I think I saw a video of Ukraine using M113s for collecting wounded soldiers. That would be valuable
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All I can think of is the migraines the Ukrainian commanders have to deal with co-originating an attack with handfuls of every NATO aligned countries second hand equipment.
I think I saw a video of Ukraine using M113s for collecting wounded soldiers. That would be valuable
Yeah they could be useful for that.
Patient care in the back of a track that isn't an ambulance configuration would be a nightmare. But using it was a meat wagon to transport the walking wounded would be useful.
Also I wanted an excuse to post this photo of a buddy of mine doing exactly what you speak of
Spoiler!
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
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So turns out Poland is not actually able to transfer and these are just pledges that are still pending German approval, which Olaf Scholz is still blocking. Scholz previously said tanks and heavy armor would be provided and the transfer ban on Leopards would be lifted only IF allies also sent tanks. Scholz is moving the goalpost now to say, Germany will only lift the Leopard transfer ban if NATO "Trans-Atlantic" partners provided tanks as well despite UK pledging Challengers, Finland, and Poland pledging their Leopards. Canada should just pledge some Leopards and see what Scholz has to say.
Sadly, the Abrams would be a logistical nightmare for Ukrainians to operate with the stupidly high fuel consumption, supply chain problems, and heavy weight of the tank compared to the Leopard and the Ukrainians desperately need superior armor right now to break through Russian defensive lines in the spring. Ukraine already operates Leopard based armored recovery vehicles from a previous donation so the supply chains and the field repair knowhow will already be there by the time Leopards show up.
What is Scholz so afraid of? He has got to have major leverage against him, there isn't any logical explanation at this point. Germans need to be shamed even further until the pressure on Scholz is overwhelming.
For Christ's sake Germany, everyone is over WWII. No one is thinking the third reich is going to rise up again if there are German tanks in Eastern Europe battling Russia.
Send the ####ing tanks. The optics are WORSE if you don't send them compared to sending them.
Cowards.
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For Christ's sake Germany, everyone is over WWII. No one is thinking the third reich is going to rise up again if there are German tanks in Eastern Europe battling Russia.
Send the ####ing tanks. The optics are WORSE if you don't send them compared to sending them.
Cowards.
For a long time, I had just assumed that Putin had Scholz in his pocket somehow but I hadn't considered the angle of the optics of having German tanks rolling into the Ukraine. It might also give Putin more ammo as all of Russia's military celebrations and holidays are centered against their great patriotic war against Germany.
That said, stopping the rest of the EU from contributing is pure cowardice and embarassing for the country that has tried for decades to be the de-facto leader of the EU
New video from the eastern Ukrainian town of Soledar shows a massive explosion at a building that appears to have been a shelter for Russian troops.
The video shows between a dozen and 20 soldiers walking along a railroad track before turning along a street on the northern outskirts of the town.
After they reach a building with a distinctive green roof, the explosion destroys the building, with debris flying upwards.
The video has been geolocated by CNN. A longer version of the video has been posted by a Ukrainian soldier in the area. The soldier, with the codename Madiar, is a commander in a Ukrainian aerial reconnaissance unit.
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Apparently at least 4 Challenger 2s will make it to Ukraine within the week and the remaining 8 will be sent after some refurbishment in the month. Question is how long the training on the tanks will take for Ukrainian crews. Hopefully these make can make a difference soon, a Challenger 2s famously took more than 70 RPG rounds in Basra, Iraq and Russians still field lots of those but the tanks are slow and heavy w/ non-standard ammo.
As for Leopards, Bloomberg is reporting Scholz is budging to international and internal pressure from factions within his governing coalition, with Germany likely to announce they will at least remove blocks from Leopard 2 exports by Poland/Finland, and possibly provide Leopard 2s themselves at the upcoming NATO meeting on Jan 20th. The comments come from the Vice Chancellor while his party is dealing with a PR scandal that forced the German Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht to tender her resignation.
Quote:
Berlin will make a decision before a meeting of senior defense officials from allied nations at the American airbase in Ramstein on Jan. 20, according to a German official familiar with the plans, who asked not to be identified because the matter is confidential. US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and his German counterpart Christine Lambrecht will also meet in Berlin the day before.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz has come under increasing pressure to allow the delivery of battle tanks to Ukraine, one week after he announced that Germany would supply armored vehicles and an additional Patriot air system to Kyiv.
Now there are signs that Scholz may be willing to back down from his initial opposition to sending Leopard tanks or that he may allow countries like Poland and Finland to re-export their own Leopards to Ukraine, a move that would require Berlin’s consent.
“Germany should not stand in the way, when other countries decide to support Ukraine, regardless of what Germany decides,” Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck said Thursday with regard to Poland’s request to send Leopard 2 tanks. Justice Minister Marco Buschmann also said in an interview on Friday that sending Leopard 2 tanks “should not be a taboo.”
German government spokeswoman Chistiane Hoffmann said that the Polish government has so far not made an official request and made clear that sending these tanks without Germany’s permission would be “illegal.”
“The approval by the federal government is needed,” Hoffman said at a regular government press conference in Berlin. “These are the rules.”
It’s still unclear if Germany will only allow other countries to send Leopard tanks or if it will send such tanks itself. Besides the Leopard 2 tanks, there are still about 180 versions of the older Leopard 1 in Germany. German officials point out that the Leopard 1, which is from the 1960s, would still be able to compete with a Russian battle tank.
Had to look up what kind of weapon would cause that kind of damage and found they used what they call a Kh-22 missile which is supposed to be an anti ship missile they call an "aircraft carrier killer." Russia has fired over 200 of these which Ukraine has no system capable of intercepting, they need that Patriot system now.
