Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Curious as to what the Liberal supporters think about the carbon tax exemption.

Also wondering if they would vote Liberal next election if the Liberals decided to axe the carbon tax.

[Fuzz]

First you'll need to find an actual liberal supporter vs someone who votes Liberal because it is the least worse choice.

[Doctorfever]

Ok. Well, I guess we found the first one…. Yes?

[Fuzz]

First off, what are the alternatives? Second, my riding is 99.99% going blue, so it doesn't actually matter.

[Doctorfever]

It’s fine. You don’t have to answer if you do t want to.

[Fuzz]

If they get rid of the carbon tax I'll be disappointed, yes. It's a market based solution that rewards good choices. I make good choices, so I profit off of it. I use that money to reduce my consumption through home improvements which means more cash in my pocket. If it incentivizes people to buy smaller vehicles, that's another win because I'm less likely to be hit while biking, and makes driving a sedan more pleasant. Less pollution is a benefit for me, too.



So that being said, wouldn't it be kinda foolish for me not to support a carbon tax?

[speede5]

That's great for you. A lot of people can't afford to make those changes though, and the burden of higher costs makes it harder to make 'improvements' as you are caught trying to make ends meet.

Penalizing people for bad behavior is one thing if you are taxing unnecessary excess, like driving a Hummer to get groceries, but it's counterproductive for life necessities.

We are replacing coal power plants with natural gas here in SK and we are still viewed as being bad for the environment. Am I supposed to throw out my perfectly functional mid eff furnace and go into debt for a heat pump system just to avoid carbon tax on my gas bill? That makes no sense at all.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If they get rid of the carbon tax I'll be disappointed, yes. It's a market based solution that rewards good choices. I make good choices, so I profit off of it. I use that money to reduce my consumption through home improvements which means more cash in my pocket. If it incentivizes people to buy smaller vehicles, that's another win because I'm less likely to be hit while biking, and makes driving a sedan more pleasant. Less pollution is a benefit for me, too.



So that being said, wouldn't it be kinda foolish for me not to support a carbon tax?

Sure.

What do you think about the exemption?

Would you vote Liberal if they got rid of the tax?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Sure.

What do you think about the exemption?

Would you vote Liberal if they got rid of the tax?

Clearly he’s disappointed by the exemption, he said so.

If you’re going to ask these annoying bating questions on route to whatever “hur dur Liberals” comment you’re trying to make, can you at least read the answers? Is that too much to ask?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Clearly he’s disappointed by the exemption, he said so.

If you’re going to ask these annoying bating questions on route to whatever “hur dur Liberals” comment you’re trying to make, can you at least read the answers? Is that too much to ask?

I did.

Do you want to answer the questions? You have voted Liberal in the past.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by speede5

That's great for you. A lot of people can't afford to make those changes though, and the burden of higher costs makes it harder to make 'improvements' as you are caught trying to make ends meet.

Penalizing people for bad behavior is one thing if you are taxing unnecessary excess, like driving a Hummer to get groceries, but it's counterproductive for life necessities.

We are replacing coal power plants with natural gas here in SK and we are still viewed as being bad for the environment. Am I supposed to throw out my perfectly functional mid eff furnace and go into debt for a heat pump system just to avoid carbon tax on my gas bill? That makes no sense at all.

I dunno, I'm tired of watching people throw money at larger and more expensive vehicles for no good reason at all. Alberta cut fuel taxes to counter the carbon tax, which is dumber than dumb. People buy huge houses far from work and then complain that life is expensive while their garage is overflowing with #### and their F-150 has nowhere to park.



I'm not saying it is all perfect as is, but the general concept isn't something I'd throw out. I have my sympathies for people actually suffering with fewer choices, and the system could be better designed around that. You know provincial governments have this power, right? They can design their own system that works for the specifics of their province, but Sask and Alberta have little interest in participating, so instead they get the Federal system. Maybe instead of non-stop bitching, these provinces could try to come up with a solution? Crazy thought.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Clearly he’s disappointed by the exemption, he said so.

He stated he would be disappointed if the Liberals axed the carbon tax. He didn't reply on the exemption.

The only thing he wrote about the exemption was a few days ago

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think it's actually a good indication that if the carbon tax is overly punitive in some markets/pollutants, that the government is willing to be flexible. It actually bodes well for Alberta in the future.

Which seems to be political spin.

Commenting about axing the tax in full, versus commenting about the most recent exemption are two completely different things.

Right now he's talking about the ideology of carbon tax and a rant about people with trucks.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I dunno, I'm tired of watching people throw money at larger and more expensive vehicles for no good reason at all. Alberta cut fuel taxes to counter the carbon tax, which is dumber than dumb. People buy huge houses far from work and then complain that life is expensive while their garage is overflowing with #### and their F-150 has nowhere to park.



I'm not saying it is all perfect as is, but the general concept isn't something I'd throw out. I have my sympathies for people actually suffering with fewer choices, and the system could be better designed around that. You know provincial governments have this power, right? They can design their own system that works for the specifics of their province, but Sask and Alberta have little interest in participating, so instead they get the Federal system. Maybe instead of non-stop bitching, these provinces could try to come up with a solution? Crazy thought.

I understand your comment on larger vehicles, however, rural people sometimes require larger vehicles during winter commutes, and some families have more people than can fit into a car. So there is a necessity there. These are a smaller demographic of people, so some will write it off as insignificant. But you seem to have sympathy for them as you stated.

Maybe Alberta and Sask’s solution should be to get exemptions like they are doing in other areas that they want to buy votes?

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I don't think "Do the dumbest and least productive sh-t possible" is the right approach.

The dumbest and least productive #### is to do nothing at all. No protest, no outrage, suits the Liberals just fine.

But I suppose saving a handful of people around parliament hill the inconvenience of a protest is far more important than addressing the fact the federal government is completely dismissive of the plight of people in the West simply because it sees no political gain in helping them or treating them fairly.

Why bother reminding the PM that you exist at all?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

The dumbest and least productive #### is to do nothing at all. No protest, no outrage, suits the Liberals just fine.

But I suppose saving a handful of people around parliament hill the inconvenience of a protest is far more important than addressing the fact the federal government is completely dismissive of the plight of people in the West simply because it sees no political gain in helping them or treating them fairly.

Why bother reminding the PM that you exist at all?

There's a universe of difference between a protest and what the convoy did.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by Yamer

There's a universe of difference between a protest and what the convoy did.

The valuable part of "what the convoy did" was that it actually got the government's attention and the government's response even attracted some international scrutiny. It takes a protest with that level of impact, and a sustained one, to be heard. 4hrs of chanting on a Sunday afternoon doesn't cut it. It's a blip in the news cycle and then nothing.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Curious as to what the Liberal supporters think about the carbon tax exemption.

Also wondering if they would vote Liberal next election if the Liberals decided to axe the carbon tax.

I'll take the bait.

I hate the exemption. I hate the Liberal MP that basically stated that you either vote for us or we will mess with you.

I think the exemption has destroyed a decade of political capital of building up the carbon tax. I am still a supporter of the carbon tax, but considering this exemption has completely destroyed the entire idea, I don't see any world where they don't cancel it.

In that case, I want to see some sort of one-time subsidy/payment for all the people that took the Liberal plan and made financial decisions such as buying an EV or a heat pump, which require carbon pricing to be remotely viable from a financial perspective.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I'll take the bait.

I hate the exemption. I hate the Liberal MP that basically stated that you either vote for us or we will mess with you.

I think the exemption has destroyed a decade of political capital of building up the carbon tax. I am still a supporter of the carbon tax, but considering this exemption has completely destroyed the entire idea, I don't see any world where they don't cancel it.

In that case, I want to see some sort of one-time subsidy/payment for all the people that took the Liberal plan and made financial decisions such as buying an EV or a heat pump, which require carbon pricing to be remotely viable from a financial perspective.

Thanks for your response. It wasn’t bait.

I wonder if most purchase related to the carbon tax (EVs, heat pumps, etc) were either subsidized, or would have been made regardless of the carbon tax?

I don’t agree with the government firing out more money to cover those purchases. More government spending might translate to more inflation. Probably turns the whole carbon tax into a bigger mistake.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I dunno, I'm tired of watching people throw money at larger and more expensive vehicles for no good reason at all. Alberta cut fuel taxes to counter the carbon tax, which is dumber than dumb. People buy huge houses far from work and then complain that life is expensive while their garage is overflowing with #### and their F-150 has nowhere to park.

No, Alberta suspended the provincial fuel tax to help fight the ongoing battle over inflation and to give people a boost with their household budgets. It is the same approach that is being implemented by the feds to help out people in Atlantic Canada because the cost of heating oil gas increased significantly.

[opendoor]

The whole thing is stupid. Heating oil is already 25% cheaper than it was last year at this time, but now it's a crisis that needs an immediate response? It's pure politics between a desperate party and people who vastly overestimate the impact that the carbon tax has on prices when compared to market forces.

In the long term, heating oil has absolutely gotten more expensive, but it's not the carbon tax driving that. In the last 7-8 years the price has gone up by about $1 a liter, but people are blaming a $0.16/L carbon tax for their problems?

Though at least the price increases are working. Heating oil usage is dropping pretty quickly everywhere. It's just funny that people are blaming the government for the prices that are driving that movement, when it's almost entirely the commodities market.