The Blue Jays Thread: 2008 Season

[Sylvanfan]

Than add in Reeds defence too. That was just a baffling move from the get go. I don't think it's the straw that ruined the team or anything...but it's another example of the team taking a step back after they maybe get a foot forward somewhere else.

For next year I'm not 100% sure what I'd do. But Wells is pretty much a Jay with that contract so you have to consider him as back. Lind plays every day in Left Field. Rios is most likely back...although I would think he's likley the best trade chip the team has that it could deal. Stairs would be okay as a platoon DH, backup outfielder, and I think he's signed for next year. Barajas isn't the best catcher, but he's been fine this year. Rolen I believe is under contract so he's probably back too. Good slick fielder but I would prefer a bit more pop from that position. Lyle Overbay...I think I'd look for an offensive upgrade here. IMO you can't afford to lack power at both corner infield positions in this Division and the duo of Overbay/Rolen hasn't really done it for two years now. Overbay has one career season with a better than 500 slugging, and thats not good enough for your first baseman unless you have a monster at shortstop or third base to offset that. Rolen at 34 likely isn't going to get back to the form he displayed when he was 28 to 31. So I think you have to get rid of one guy and bring in a big time hitter. Shortstop as we all know is an issue. Hill if he's healthy he's pretty much signed to play the position. Scutaro and Inglett I think are solid bench depth that I think they should be keeping. So if a guy like Snider is ready for a look can he be used as a first base/dh and give you enough production? Tough call, to me this still looks like it's going to be a middling team thats in the middle of the pack again if they keep that core.

[Machiavelli]

We'll have to trade a pitcher to get anyone worthwhile back, I think. Either that or package a promising prospect or two with someone like Overbay, who wouldn't fetch enough on his own.

Upsetting that none of these guys could step up. Who has the most HRs? Wells at 9 or something? The dude who's been on the DL twice this year? Pathetic.

I don't even know what to expect for next year.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

We'll have to trade a pitcher to get anyone worthwhile back, I think. Either that or package a promising prospect or two with someone like Overbay, who wouldn't fetch enough on his own.

Upsetting that none of these guys could step up. Who has the most HRs? Wells at 9 or something? The dude who's been on the DL twice this year? Pathetic.

I don't even know what to expect for next year.

In my opinion the Jays need to find a new DH, whether its via trade or via UFA market. The key is finding a DH who can put up big power numbers.......

However in my opinion the Jays won't have a problem acquiring one in the offseason.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JayP

The Jays really couldn't use an .808 OPS bat right now. That, sadly, would rank second on the team to only Adam Lind.

The problem in the Jays lineup is that there is no batter that is feared. Reed sees good pitches because if he is walked than a teammate will score him.

As long as there is no feared batter in the Jays lineup, everyone's job is tougher. If Reed was in TO he wouldn't be over .800 OPS.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flambers

In my opinion the Jays need to find a new DH, whether its via trade or via UFA market. The key is finding a DH who can put up big power numbers.......

However in my opinion the Jays won't have a problem acquiring one in the offseason.

I want to see Snider and Cooper as a Sept callups and see if they can fill that role.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Than add in Reeds defence too. That was just a baffling move from the get go. I don't think it's the straw that ruined the team or anything...but it's another example of the team taking a step back after they maybe get a foot forward somewhere else.

For next year I'm not 100% sure what I'd do. But Wells is pretty much a Jay with that contract so you have to consider him as back. Lind plays every day in Left Field. Rios is most likely back...although I would think he's likley the best trade chip the team has that it could deal. Stairs would be okay as a platoon DH, backup outfielder, and I think he's signed for next year. Barajas isn't the best catcher, but he's been fine this year. Rolen I believe is under contract so he's probably back too. Good slick fielder but I would prefer a bit more pop from that position. Lyle Overbay...I think I'd look for an offensive upgrade here. IMO you can't afford to lack power at both corner infield positions in this Division and the duo of Overbay/Rolen hasn't really done it for two years now. Overbay has one career season with a better than 500 slugging, and thats not good enough for your first baseman unless you have a monster at shortstop or third base to offset that. Rolen at 34 likely isn't going to get back to the form he displayed when he was 28 to 31. So I think you have to get rid of one guy and bring in a big time hitter. Shortstop as we all know is an issue. Hill if he's healthy he's pretty much signed to play the position. Scutaro and Inglett I think are solid bench depth that I think they should be keeping. So if a guy like Snider is ready for a look can he be used as a first base/dh and give you enough production? Tough call, to me this still looks like it's going to be a middling team thats in the middle of the pack again if they keep that core.

Yep, I agree. I would think the Jays will have Barajas back as their every day catcher... One of the young guys will get promoted to be the back up catcher...

I would think the Jays will need to find a new #1 Shortstop... With Eckstein only on a one year deal he will leave for sure. Players like Inglett and Scutaro will be the reserve players.... If no shortstop is available I could see Scutaro becoming the #1 Shortstop next year.

I would bet the Jays will look to trade Overbay, he simply has not been the same since he broke his hand. As mentioned above the Jays need a power hitter in this position.

I would bet Rolen will be back but his shoulder has to be a huge concern (i.e. does he need surgery once again..... has his shoulder been a problem all year????)

As for the outfield.... I would bet its Lind / Wells / Rios...

As for Snider I would think he will start the year at AAA and will get promoted around the half way point in the season.....

The other problem area could be a starter......... i.e. will McGowan be healthly? I would bet AJ will opt out of his contract....

As I mentioned in my previous post.... the Jays need to find a power hitter for the DH spot.... I would think Matt Stairs is finished as a Jay.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I want to see Snider and Cooper as a Sept callups and see if they can fill that role.

Snider is not on the 40 man roster... I doubt he will get called up....

Cooper is only in Single A... I would think he is two years away.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

For next year I'm not 100% sure what I'd do. But Wells is pretty much a Jay with that contract so you have to consider him as back. Lind plays every day in Left Field. Rios is most likely back...although I would think he's likley the best trade chip the team has that it could deal. Stairs would be okay as a platoon DH, backup outfielder, and I think he's signed for next year. Barajas isn't the best catcher, but he's been fine this year. Rolen I believe is under contract so he's probably back too. Good slick fielder but I would prefer a bit more pop from that position. Lyle Overbay...I think I'd look for an offensive upgrade here. IMO you can't afford to lack power at both corner infield positions in this Division and the duo of Overbay/Rolen hasn't really done it for two years now. Overbay has one career season with a better than 500 slugging, and thats not good enough for your first baseman unless you have a monster at shortstop or third base to offset that. Rolen at 34 likely isn't going to get back to the form he displayed when he was 28 to 31. So I think you have to get rid of one guy and bring in a big time hitter. Shortstop as we all know is an issue. Hill if he's healthy he's pretty much signed to play the position. Scutaro and Inglett I think are solid bench depth that I think they should be keeping. So if a guy like Snider is ready for a look can he be used as a first base/dh and give you enough production? Tough call, to me this still looks like it's going to be a middling team thats in the middle of the pack again if they keep that core.

I think Lind/Wells/Rios is a lock for at least '09. Rios' value is too low right now, no way you get value back for him - even if he never will be a 30hr/100rbi man.

I don't mind Overbay at 1b, he gets on base and has doubles power. His contract makes him a non-asset, but also not a liability. He should be a #6 hitter, and he could be if the lineup is playing up to snuff next year.

Catcher next year is Barajas starting and one of the kids - probably Arencebia (sp?) backing him up and maybe taking over in '10.

Rolen is unmovable. At least his contract will be on the team next year, hopefully he can hold down 3b with gold glove defense.
I think they're shutting him down for the season right now so he can contribute next year - probably batting in the 7 hole.

If we have a lineup of:
RF Rios
2B Hill
LF Lind
CF Wells
DH Snider/Cooper
1B Overbay
C Barajas
3B Rolen
SS MacDonald

That's an average batting lineup in the league when healthy, and if we can turn Exstien/Zaun/Thomas' salary space into a SS like Hardy or another offensive contributer from SS (with Rolen and MacDonald helping him out his D at 3rd). That leaves Scoots and Inglett backing up the infield and outfield respectively. If we could pry Young back from Texas I'd be thrilled.

RF Rios
1B Overbay
SS Young
LF Lind
CF Wells
DH Snider
2B Hill
C Arencibia
3B Rolen

The best-case scenario of that lineup is a big upgrade in AVG and SLG.

A Cy Young candidate (winner?) in Halladay at #1 in the rotation, Burnett or Sheets at #2, Marcum at #3, and McGowan/Litstch/Purcey/Cecil/Jannsen/Wolfe at #4 and #5 - we have a competitive team.

Doesn't look much better than this year, but some health, luck, and better use of $20M than X, Zaun, and the Big Hurt - we can still hope.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flambers

Snider is not on the 40 man roster... I doubt he will get called up....

Cooper is only in Single A... I would think he is two years away.

I just looked, JP said Snider will not be up.

Cooper played 4 years in college - he's not as green as Snider was, although I might be getting carried away putting either of these two on the club next year.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Who has the most HRs? Wells at 9 or something? The dude who's been on the DL twice this year? Pathetic.

Stairs @ 11

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Stairs @ 11

Oh. <----- for both me and the Jays

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I think Lind/Wells/Rios is a lock for at least '09. Rios' value is too low right now, no way you get value back for him - even if he never will be a 30hr/100rbi man.

I don't mind Overbay at 1b, he gets on base and has doubles power. His contract makes him a non-asset, but also not a liability. He should be a #6 hitter, and he could be if the lineup is playing up to snuff next year.

Catcher next year is Barajas starting and one of the kids - probably Arencebia (sp?) backing him up and maybe taking over in '10.

Rolen is unmovable. At least his contract will be on the team next year, hopefully he can hold down 3b with gold glove defense.
I think they're shutting him down for the season right now so he can contribute next year - probably batting in the 7 hole.

If we have a lineup of:
RF Rios
2B Hill
LF Lind
CF Wells
DH Snider/Cooper
1B Overbay
C Barajas
3B Rolen
SS MacDonald

That's an average batting lineup in the league when healthy, and if we can turn Exstien/Zaun/Thomas' salary space into a SS like Hardy or another offensive contributer from SS (with Rolen and MacDonald helping him out his D at 3rd). That leaves Scoots and Inglett backing up the infield and outfield respectively. If we could pry Young back from Texas I'd be thrilled.

RF Rios
1B Overbay
SS Young
LF Lind
CF Wells
DH Snider
2B Hill
C Arencibia
3B Rolen

The best-case scenario of that lineup is a big upgrade in AVG and SLG.

A Cy Young candidate (winner?) in Halladay at #1 in the rotation, Burnett or Sheets at #2, Marcum at #3, and McGowan/Litstch/Purcey/Cecil/Jannsen/Wolfe at #4 and #5 - we have a competitive team.

Doesn't look much better than this year, but some health, luck, and better use of $20M than X, Zaun, and the Big Hurt - we can still hope.

Well Young as a shortstop would represent a huge upgrade and be what the team could use. Still would that lineup be good enough to go against the AL East? We're talking the Yankees, Sox, and and up and coming Rays team here. Maybe in the NL West, or the AL Central, but not this Division unless that pitching is lights out all year long.

Really they have to figure out how to get a 550 slugger, 900 OPS in the middle of that lineup as far as I'm concerned. If they added a guy like Texeira (unrealistic...but I'll use him anyways) to hit 4th, than you suddenly could expect the likes of Lind, Rios, Wells, Rolen to have better numbers hitting around a guy like that. But really the Jays will never attract a FA like that...they need to develop their own hitter like that from within their system and hopefully a guy like Snider or Cooper would be that guy one day.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well Young as a shortstop would represent a huge upgrade and be what the team could use. Still would that lineup be good enough to go against the AL East? We're talking the Yankees, Sox, and and up and coming Rays team here. Maybe in the NL West, or the AL Central, but not this Division unless that pitching is lights out all year long.

I'd say Tampa and New York have the best batting next year (I've already got Texeria at 1B for NY in 09) and Toronto with the best pitching.

[Sylvanfan]

Well the Rays have a lot of good young pitching too. Really if the Jays don't have Burnett next year than how does their pitching really look? There is a lot of question marks in that starting rotation after Halladay if there isn't Burnett behind him. None of the left over guys has pitched a full season in the Majors as a starting pitcher.

[Gozer]

If Burnett does opt out, we might still resign him, or take "his" money and throw it at Ben Sheets (whom JP has a man-crush on). But assuming neither happens.

Halladay, Marcum, and McGowan once healthy - even if its not day 1, he'll be back next year. That's not too shabby, and still pretty cheap. Add to that Janssen returning from injury and converted reliever Brian Wolfe as experienced MLBers.
Litsch started the year 7-1, and top shelf prospects Cecil and Purcey. Assuming one of each of those two pairs stick.

Halladay
Marcum
McGowan/Listch (say one sticks and one fills in for an injured starter)
Janssen/Wolf (one sticks, one bounces to the 'pen)
Purcey/Cecil (one sticks, one bounces to the farm)

That's an ok starting five. Edit: I forgot Richmond. I'm not convinced he's not just a publicity stunt, but he should be mentioned.

And that's not touching the league's best 'pen.

Ryan
Accardo
Downs
Tallet
Carlson
League
Frasor
Camp

[Machiavelli]

^ Interesting, but I don't think McGowan will be in competition with Litsch for a starter's role next year (assuming he's healthy). McGowan has some of the best stuff of the rotation . . . he's miles ahead of Litsch in that regard. I see next year as

Halladay
McGowan
Marcum
Litsch/Wolfe
Purcey/Janssen

Would be ideal if we could bring in another starter if Burnett leaves, because that's not looking great, although adequate.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, ideally Burnett's heart grows 10 sizes and he decides to play out this contract....But really he's won 14 games this year, and if he wins say 18 games...thats a 15 million dollar pitcher somewhere.

The Jays have some good young pitching, and look like they should have a good bullpen next year...but is it far enough along to mask a mediocre lineup against the AL East?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

^ Interesting, but I don't think McGowan will be in competition with Litsch for a starter's role next year (assuming he's healthy). McGowan has some of the best stuff of the rotation . . . he's miles ahead of Litsch in that regard. I see next year as

I agree 100%, I was suggesting the top three would be set and assume Litsch is filling in for an injured starter for a good part of the season (maybe McG to start the season, whomever else later).

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The Jays have some good young pitching, and look like they should have a good bullpen next year...but is it far enough along to mask a mediocre lineup against the AL East?

The pitching can't get any better then the last two seasons...but the answer to your question sure seems like a resounding "No."

But I do think we have the building blocks of a solid offensive team, kind of like the Flames minus Iggy.
Problem is, Iggy's are difficult to find.

[Jiggy_12]

The Reed Johnson move is just looking more and more terrible with every passing day.

Stewart, Mench, Wilkerson...? Just awful.