2024/2025 English Premier League Thread

[devo22]

I liked those quotes from Ashley Westwood, manager of Uniteds second opponent on this joke of a trip. Really nothing more to say about this.

United will come up against a Hong Kong side managed by a former academy graduate in Ashley Westwood, who won the FA Youth Cup as a teenager at Old Trafford. Westwood gave a revealing answer when asked about United’s post-season journey to the other side of the world.

“Players, I have been there, just want to rest,” Westwood said. “This trip is all about revenues, it has become a thing. Teams do end of season tours.

“I was working for MUTV in Perth on a pre-season trip. The end of season is different. Fans and sponsors pay wages. No players want to do it because they want to recover and many have internationals after that.

“They probably need this like a hole in the head. No-one says it on the record because you can’t.”

[devo22]

Bruno Fernandes to Al Hilal is gaining steam. Talks between his camp and them have gone well, and they are prepared to pay crazy money (over £100m according to Sky).

[The Big Chill]

Frimpong to Liverpool is done! Rumours are Wirtz and Kerkez are close and could be done in the next couple of days. Will be quite the start to the off season if those three get done before the window opens.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by devo22

Bruno Fernandes to Al Hilal is gaining steam. Talks between his camp and them have gone well, and they are prepared to pay crazy money (over £100m according to Sky).

I've been saying for a while that Bruno leaving United is actually exactly what they need.
Similar to when Arsenal had Aubemeyang; they need the rebuilding from the core out, even if he's their best player.

[Slava]

Lots of rumours saying that Spurs are/have sacked Postecoglou. Supporters are pretty divided. In the one hand, 22 league losses and 17th is disastrous. On the other hand hand, he did what no one else has been able to do with Tottenham and won the elusive major trophy.

I think that this would be a little more palatable, but the replacement sounds like it’s Thomas Frank, and that doesn’t get people all that excited.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Sacking the manager who just won you a European trophy would be nuts. I hope it's true

[Locke]

Liverpool appear to be on the recruitment warpath.

Frimpong is done, Kelleher is gone, he'll be missed but it was always on the cards.

The others seem well along in the process despite it being the first day.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Sacking the manager who just won you a European trophy would be nuts. I hope it's true

I don’t know. Because of the way things turned out, the Spurs board have a difficult call to make here. No matter which way they go, there’ll be people going nuts about the decision. Perhaps recency bias skewed by the EL win will lend itself to sticking with Ange being more palatable to most.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I don’t know. Because of the way things turned out, the Spurs board have a difficult call to make here. No matter which way they go, there’ll be people going nuts about the decision. Perhaps recency bias skewed by the EL win will lend itself to sticking with Ange being more palatable to most.

Yeah. This.

Angerball might work, but you gotta give him some players. So...do they back him or not? He won the EL and got a CL spot...but the League form was abysmal. Obviously these things have a fair bit to do with one another.

But its a tough call. It seems like a Lose/Lose proposition unless they believe in him and give him some money for players.

[Slava]

Let’s be honest, if we had lost the final he was gone for sure. You can’t keep a guy with 22 league losses and particularly when the atmosphere was as toxic as it was through the year. So, the question is whether 90 minutes ending with a trophy makes up for that?

I think that if the new appointment was someone more exciting than Thomas Frank, the decision becomes much easier. What I don’t want to see is Ange sacked, Frank comes in and basically isn’t given a chance and we’re back where we started.

Oh, and the other issue here…the players love Ange. If you sack him, you probably lose Romero. There have been rumours that he’s leaving anyway, but apparently that’s the case.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Let’s be honest, if we had lost the final he was gone for sure. You can’t keep a guy with 22 league losses and particularly when the atmosphere was as toxic as it was through the year. So, the question is whether 90 minutes ending with a trophy makes up for that?

I think that if the new appointment was someone more exciting than Thomas Frank, the decision becomes much easier. What I don’t want to see is Ange sacked, Frank comes in and basically isn’t given a chance and we’re back where we started.

Oh, and the other issue here…the players love Ange. If you sack him, you probably lose Romero. There have been rumours that he’s leaving anyway, but apparently that’s the case.

I cant speak to the atmosphere, but it was pretty clear that it was 'EL or Bust.'

But he got the EL. So...? Now what?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I cant speak to the atmosphere, but it was pretty clear that it was 'EL or Bust.'

But he got the EL. So...? Now what?

Yeah, the strategy worked for the trophy. And there are compelling arguments to keep him aside from that (the injury crisis and the fact that until then we were 5th in the league, and the record with the full backline was 15-3-2).

On the other side, though, things were dreadful aside from Europa and a reasonable Carabao Cup run. I'm far from a master tactician, and could draw up the way we conceded a goal repeatedly. Surely, if some guy whose expertise is not this can see that the long ball to the back post for the open man is crushing us week in and week out, then our professional coaching staff should be able to sort that out.

[devo22]

Ornstein says Bryan Mbeumo wants to join Man United. Now up to the clubs to strike a deal.

Cunha-Mbeumo would be a great start to the transfer window ... perfect age (25/26), PL proven, good fit as the two 10s in Amorims system. Scored 15 and 20 league goals last season respectively, so it's the kind of firepower United desperately need.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by devo22

I liked those quotes from Ashley Westwood, manager of Uniteds second opponent on this joke of a trip. Really nothing more to say about this.

Players from Premier League teams have contacted the PFA, the players' union, to "express concern" over their involvement in post-season tours, PFA CEO Maheta Molango, has said.

Sources have told ESPN that United's trip to Asia last week earned the club £8 million ($10.8m) in appearance fees, but the tour was mired in controversy due to the team's performances and Amad Diallo and Alejandro Garnacho were both criticised for making obscene gestures to supporters.

But while accepting the need for clubs to maximise revenue streams, speaking at a FIFPRO summit in Munich, PFA CEO Molango said that players are increasingly unhappy at overseas friendly games reducing their rest periods.

"I think we're all mindful and understand some of the financial dynamics that a club goes through, but the reality is that quite a few players have expressed concern," Molango said. "We [PFA] have expressed concern about those post-season tours.

https://global.espn.com/football/sto...t-season-tours

To the shock and awe of absolutely no one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, the strategy worked for the trophy. And there are compelling arguments to keep him aside from that (the injury crisis and the fact that until then we were 5th in the league, and the record with the full backline was 15-3-2).

On the other side, though, things were dreadful aside from Europa and a reasonable Carabao Cup run. I'm far from a master tactician, and could draw up the way we conceded a goal repeatedly. Surely, if some guy whose expertise is not this can see that the long ball to the back post for the open man is crushing us week in and week out, then our professional coaching staff should be able to sort that out.

And this, I think, is what makes any evaluation of Ange (and I use his first name because his last name is a pain in the ass) very difficult.

Yes. His League Form was almost unforgivably atrocious. 38 Points in 38 games is brutal. Almost anyone else would have been fired months ago.

But...was that form a result of him throwing all of his eggs in the EL basket? I think it very well was. Thats a hell of a risk, almost reckless, but it paid off.

If he'd smoothed his resources out over all competitions would his record have been better to more appropriately argue to keep his job? Maybe? Would that tactic have likely cost him the EL Trophy and thusly CL money next year? Almost certainly.

So. The question is...was he incompetent? Under-supported? A bad manager? Or just a gambler with gigantic iron balls?

Because the way I look at it is...if management goes to him at the beginning of the season and says to him:

"Champions' League football next year. By any and all means necessary."

Then he did his job. He took a HUGE goddamn risk doing it. But he accomplished the task and provided a European Trophy in doing it.

It wasn't pretty, but it got done.

I dont know about what the players think about him, or about how he adjusted his tactics or what the framework was when he seemingly changed his mind about 'F### everything else, we're all in on Europa' and I dont claim to, but it very clearly happened.

But if I were Spurs management looking at CL football next season? I'd be exhaling heartily with relief and then kissing his feet and then getting to work making sure he doesnt have to throw 'Hail Mary's' next season.

[Locke]

And finally, sometimes a 'Job Done' is just as good as a 'Job Done Well.'

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Locke

And this, I think, is what makes any evaluation of Ange (and I use his first name because his last name is a pain in the ass) very difficult.

Yes. His League Form was almost unforgivably atrocious. 38 Points in 38 games is brutal. Almost anyone else would have been fired months ago.

But...was that form a result of him throwing all of his eggs in the EL basket? I think it very well was. Thats a hell of a risk, almost reckless, but it paid off.

If he'd smoothed his resources out over all competitions would his record have been better to more appropriately argue to keep his job? Maybe? Would that tactic have likely cost him the EL Trophy and thusly CL money next year? Almost certainly.

So. The question is...was he incompetent? Under-supported? A bad manager? Or just a gambler with gigantic iron balls?

Because the way I look at it is...if management goes to him at the beginning of the season and says to him:

"Champions' League football next year. By any and all means necessary."

Then he did his job. He took a HUGE goddamn risk doing it. But he accomplished the task and provided a European Trophy in doing it.

It wasn't pretty, but it got done.

I dont know about what the players think about him, or about how he adjusted his tactics or what the framework was when he seemingly changed his mind about 'F### everything else, we're all in on Europa' and I dont claim to, but it very clearly happened.

But if I were Spurs management looking at CL football next season? I'd be exhaling heartily with relief and then kissing his feet and then getting to work making sure he doesnt have to throw 'Hail Mary's' next season.

Excellent post.

Football is a business. He did what was best for business while giving his club’s fans something to shout about at the end.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Excellent post.

Football is a business. He did what was best for business while giving his club’s fans something to shout about at the end.

I mean...lets be honest, the guy pulled an intermediate-level miracle out of his ass.

The Fans are happy, despite 38 points and finishing 17th.

The Board is happy. They get Champions' League cake.

The Team is happy. They won a Trophy.

And he pulled all of that off despite the absolutely shambolic performances this season.

Its gotta be some kind of record. If it were me? I'm not firing that guy, I'm throwing money at him!

Unless it was all sheer, dumb luck.

[Locke]

Jadon Sancho confirmed his departure from Chelsea on Tuesday ahead of his return to Manchester United following the end of his season-long loan at Stamford Bridge.

Chelsea failed to agree personal terms on a permanent deal with the former England international, a source told ESPN.

Chelsea will be forced to pay a £5 million ($6.7m) penalty to break their initial loan agreement with United, which contained an obligation to buy Sancho for a fee of around £25m.

The source added that Chelsea asked Sancho to accept a significant cut to his salary -- in excess of £300k-a-week -- to bring him into line with the wage structure at Stamford Bridge but talks broke down.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/...d-talks-source

Didn't want to take a pay cut so back to Manchester he goes.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

I mean...lets be honest, the guy pulled an intermediate-level miracle out of his ass.

The Fans are happy, despite 38 points and finishing 17th.

The Board is happy. They get Champions' League cake.

The Team is happy. They won a Trophy.

And he pulled all of that off despite the absolutely shambolic performances this season.

Its gotta be some kind of record. If it were me? I'm not firing that guy, I'm throwing money at him!

Unless it was all sheer, dumb luck.

Well, it wasn’t dumb luck. When we have the full backline, we’re 15-3-2. I realise no one would admit it, but any team is going to struggle when you lose your two CBs, keeper and several other starters for a couple of months. To me, that’s the league. It’s impossible to know, but you have to think the league form would’ve been better without all those injuries. We finished 5th the year before and when the rash of injuries started we were also in 5th. So, it’s not a stretch to say we have a better team than the 17th place finish.

So, do you give the guy another shot and hope for improvement in the league and more silverware? Or do you think that another manager could get more out of this squad? I think that’s the difficult question for Levy and the board.