[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CFO

I don't agree. Sprinkle a couple younger guys in but for most part all cup winning teams after Blackhawks year has been won by teams with leading players in late 20s or early 30s

The Penguins has nobody of real substance over 30 on their two championship teams.

Caps had one guy over 30 who was pretty important (he was 31), everyone else in their 20’s.

Blues had nobody over 30 who was important

Tampa had one guy over 30 in their second championship run (31) and everyone else was in their 20’s

Colorado had one guy over 30 who was a contributor, but the key pieces were in their 20’s

Vegas was an outlier but in general, 20 somethings win Cups and guys over 30 collect cheques but are not really competitive anymore for the big prize.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by heep223

Ok that may be true but I was responding to “he is nowhere near past his prime”. Which is clearly not the case - he’s about to be past it if he’s not already.

Also, "he might have some good years left," Is not a great argument before signing a gigantic EIGHT YEAR contract. And that contract wouldn't be a bargain, even in the first couple years. If he matches a career year, we will break even for that ONE year. Never mind when he can barely tie his skates in the back half.

Eight years, starting NEXT year, and the first 2 months of that will be end of his 20s. Contract won't be a bargain even when he's still good.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Haven't kept up with the thread but this whole situation with Lindholm seems ridiculous, how is Conroy supposed to operate and build a team for next year if there is no deadline for Lindholm to make his decision? Draft is already gone and so are all the UFAs. Teams have filled their most urgent needs. Are they really going to take all three guys to next season knowing that they all are just waiting to get away and aren't invested in the team? Not blaming Conroy at all here but the situation stinks.

I think based on what had been reported that Lindholm is re-signing. If this is true, then there is no deadline this summer.

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Also, "he might have some good years left," Is not a great argument before signing a gigantic EIGHT YEAR contract. And that contract wouldn't be a bargain, even in the first couple years.

Well, it is a good thing no one is really making that argument. I expect in the first three/four years of that deal he will be providing at least market value. If Kindholm has a few more +1.00pts/GP seasons over that period, then that is definitely a bargain in today's market, where $8.0 m should buy a quality 60-pts centre.


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[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Well, it is a good thing no one is really making that argument. I expect in the first three/four years of that deal he will be providing at least market value. If Kindholm has a few more +1.00pts/GP seasons over that period, then that is definitely a bargain in today's market, where $8.0 m should buy a quality 60-pts centre.
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"Nobody is making that argument" *proceeds to make the argument.*

He has one PPG season on a line with 2 MVP candidates. He is a 60 point player right now. What about after that 3 years, where we weren't competitive anyway?

Also, he would be the BEST of those albatross contracts. If it was just him it would be fine. But there is no longer room. Tre gave those albatross spots away. They are gone.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Redrum

"Nobody is making that argument" *proceeds to make the argument.*

He has one PPG season on a line with 2 MVP candidates. He is a 60 point player right now. What about after that 3 years, where we weren't competitive anyway?

Also, he would be the BEST of those albatross contracts. If it was just him it would be fine. But there is no longer room. Tre gave those albatross spots away. They are gone.

We would have to be one of the only teams in the salary cap era to give 4 guys max term contracts that start in the year they either turn 30 or are over 30 during the first season. It is really an unheard of approach.

Only team that tried that approach was San Jose a few years ago with Burns, Karlsson, Couture and Vlasic all falling into that category. They are probably ####ed for another 3-4 years because of it.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

We would have to be one of the only teams in the salary cap era to give 4 guys max term contracts that start in the year they either turn 30 or are over 30 during the first season. It is really an unheard of approach.

The Sharks may have been close?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Nelson

The Sharks may have been close?

Ya they did it. We would be following the sharks approach with probably similar results to the Sharks since they did it. Out of the playoffs for the term of the contracts.

[RobotTalk]

Originally Posted by flambers

My concern, even if they resign Lindholm, I am sure not the Flames are a playoff team.

They don't have the depth or the scoring.

Even if they are a playoff team, they're a first round exit playoff team. Signing Lindholm and thus locking up a ton of salary in players north of 30 that aren't good enough to go on long runs consistently is a recipe for the mediocrity that has defined the Flames since the early 90s.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RobotTalk

Even if they are a playoff team, they're a first round exit playoff team. Signing Lindholm and thus locking up a ton of salary in players north of 30 that aren't good enough to go on long runs consistently is a recipe for the mediocrity that has defined the Flames since the early 90s.

People have exaggerated ideas about how poor they believe this roster is. If Lindholm is extended the Flames are a playoff team, and will probably be in contention for the Division.

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[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

People have exaggerated ideas about how poor they believe this roster is. If Lindholm is extended the Flames are a playoff team, and will probably be in contention for the Division.

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I'm not saying it's a poor roster, but with Lindholm in the line-up the Flames have finished 1st in the Pacific twice, 4th in the Pacific once, 5th in the Pacific once, and 5th in the North division once. A lot of things have to go right for the Flames to contend for the division.

As our roster stands right now our top point producer last year(Lindholm) had 64 points, that's tied for 80th in the NHL. Essentially every team had 2-3 players that were better at generating offense than our best forward. That's a problem especially on special teams, with the goalie pulled, and in OT. It could be fixed in a bit of a different system, but then we might give up even more defensively. Goaltending also remains largely a question mark, because we don't know what we'll get.

That's why it's hard to give this team the benefit of the doubt until they actually start playing some exciting hockey.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Don’t most good teams do this though?Crosby and Malkin won cups in their 30s with massive contracts taking them past their prime. Toews and Kaner same thing. Ovechkin. Stone. Stamkos. Like every single team that’s won a cup has kept their higher end players, signed them to massive contracts and then eventually won with those players. If we want to continue to be mediocre we will continue to bungle our higher end assets and not surround them with truly great talent but over payed UFA talent like Brouwer, Neal, Raymond etc. if we want to flip the script we will pay up to keep the top talent that we’ve invested so much time and effort into developing. Lindy isn’t the greatest example of this but it still rings true, most teams don’t let players like Lindy at the age he’s at reach free agency and there’s a reason for it.

Even if that was true (it's not) there's a massive difference between Crosby and Malkin than anyone the Flames have.

[Jason14h]

EDIT - Should be in other trade thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

If we are going to put ourselves in cap hell to help Brad I'd want more coming back in terms of assets we want a 1st and prospect.

[DazzlinDino]

Flames should try trade Kadri while they can or they end buying him out without the desired results.

He doesnt appear to move the needle enough to be "that" top 6" guy you can count on.

Lindholm on the other hand, at least he shows up to play which is more hopeful... Flames would be good to trade guys in their prime due date and get better returns rather than keeping dead weight both in age and contracts.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

People act like Kadri's making superstar money, seven million ain't gonna be crap in three years when the cap goes up 10-12 million. It'll never be a bargain but won't be a hinderance.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think if Huberdeau and Kadri both have better seasons, there is a market for them for sure as the cap goes up.

[Redrum]

Kadri is already turning 33 with 6 years left, so even another extremely unlikely breakout year for him won't get him out of here without a sweetener. The cap going up isn't really relief. It just means players will be more expensive from now on. Players and teams are already positioning to consume it the second it goes up.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Kadri is already turning 33 with 6 years left, so even another extremely unlikely breakout year for him won't get him out of here without a sweetener. The cap going up isn't really relief. It just means players will be more expensive from now on. Players and teams are already positioning to consume it the second it goes up.

True, after his big year any team in the NHL could have signed him for $7 mil but only one GM was dumb enough to do that.

In two years nobody will want to spend their new found cap extravaganza on Kadri. They'll give it to guys they drafted who earned it there. That's what good teams do.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

True, after his big year any team in the NHL could have signed him for $7 mil but only one GM was dumb enough to do that.

And now that GM is where Kadri never wanted to leave