Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

As I said, terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. One of my favourite journalists on this issue has compiled a list of the mass shooters who had established convictions of marijuana possession. Speculative, YES. Tenuous, YES. Possible, absolutely.

Well that kind of relies on the assumption that all mass shooters are mentally ill, or do they cross-reference that?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

But, if by smoking marijuana, there is a quantifiable link to an increased chance of developing a mental disorder then that becomes a valid point in any discussion about legalizing marijuana.

The social implications of that are massive.

There's a quantifiable link to mental health issues for pretty much any mind-altering substance, legal or not.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

While I don't really have a dog in this fight, and would rather see tax revenue generated from what people are going to do regardless of the law...

There are people using arguments that are rallied against in for example, the ongoing US shooting thread. "People are gonna get it anyways so legalize it and educate." Replace "weed" with "firearm" and the people who are pro weed will instantaneously have their heads explode.

Not sure comparing legalizing weed to firearms is an equivalency.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Impaired driving has never killed anyone. Gotcha.

Are you sure you want to compare deaths caused by driving under the influence of MJ and those cause by gun use? Is that where this is going to go? Because you're going to lose really really bad.

Not to mention, there's a thread for that.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by peter12

As I said, terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. One of my favourite journalists on this issue has compiled a list of the mass shooters who had established convictions of marijuana possession. Speculative, YES. Tenuous, YES. Possible, absolutely.

We can all agree that smoking cigarettes has been definitively linked to causing cancer, but that not all smokers are guaranteed to develop cancer.

So, if it can be proven that repeated marijuana usage can be definitively linked to an increased chance of developing a mental illness, then marijuana could realistically be considered one of the most dangerous drugs on the market.

[2Stonedbirds]

But if it saves just one life...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

We can all agree that smoking cigarettes has been definitively linked to causing cancer, but that not all smokers are guaranteed to develop cancer.

So, if it can be proven that repeated marijuana usage can be definitively linked to an increased chance of developing a mental illness, then marijuana could realistically be considered one of the most dangerous drugs on the market.

Uhhh...are you saying mental illness is more dangerous than cancer?

[peter12]

Beyond pure equivocation, what leg to the proponents of legalization have to stand upon?

I will grant them that the way our society treats alcohol is pure hypocrisy.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Beyond pure equivocation, what leg to the proponents of legalization have to stand upon?

I will grant them that the way our society treats alcohol is pure hypocrisy.

That the prosecution and incarceration of people for possession of narcotics is a much bigger burden on our society vs. the treatment of addicts.

EDIT: Or the basic libertarian question of why the hell should the government be able to control what I do an don't put in my own body?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

We can all agree that smoking cigarettes has been definitively linked to causing cancer, but that not all smokers are guaranteed to develop cancer.

So, if it can be proven that repeated marijuana usage can be definitively linked to an increased chance of developing a mental illness, then marijuana could realistically be considered one of the most dangerous drugs on the market.

Then you also have to compare those rates to every other drug and see which is most likely to cause this issue, because I would bet my bottom dollar that you can find correlation for almost anything. And also define what you consider "mental illness" and if it is causing them, enhancing them, or correlated in the way that mental illness breeds drug use, and not the other way around.

These studies are done with the premise going in that there is a link between mental health issues and MJ use. This is because the only research we are currently allowed to do into effects of illicit drugs is into their negative impacts. So even with studies actively looking for that correlation, the research comes up as pretty inconclusive.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Then you also have to compare those rates to every other drug and see which is most likely to cause this issue, because I would bet my bottom dollar that you can find correlation for almost anything. And also define what you consider "mental illness" and if it is causing them, enhancing them, or correlated in the way that mental illness breeds drug use, and not the other way around.

These studies are done with the premise going in that there is a link between mental health issues and MJ use. This is because the only research we are currently allowed to do into effects of illicit drugs is into their negative impacts. So even with studies actively looking for that correlation, the research comes up as pretty inconclusive.

Actually the studies that have looked into the positive benefits of marijuana have come up with pretty unimpressive results.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by peter12

Beyond pure equivocation, what leg to the proponents of legalization have to stand upon?

I will grant them that the way our society treats alcohol is pure hypocrisy.

We have shoved facts down your throat for days. Meanwhile you have 1 study that gets posted 3 times a page.

The more educated society becomes, the more it accepts the benefits of marijuana. You are the exception. Maybe that graduate degree is getting to your head.

You are truly delusional and I've wasted enough of my time trying to educate you and ILiketoPuck. It gets annoying when people are too stubborn to acknowledge plain facts.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Then you also have to compare those rates to every other drug and see which is most likely to cause this issue, because I would bet my bottom dollar that you can find correlation for almost anything. And also define what you consider "mental illness" and if it is causing them, enhancing them, or correlated in the way that mental illness breeds drug use, and not the other way around.

These studies are done with the premise going in that there is a link between mental health issues and MJ use. This is because the only research we are currently allowed to do into effects of illicit drugs is into their negative impacts. So even with studies actively looking for that correlation, the research comes up as pretty inconclusive.

I'm pretty sure there have been recent studies suggesting that low doses of MDMA and Ketamine could potentially treat people with PTSD, but one of the problems with getting more informative studies has been acquiring/testing these drugs due to their legal status.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by peter12

Actually the studies that have looked into the positive benefits of marijuana have come up with pretty unimpressive results.

Yes you're whole 1 study. There are thousands of cases that show marijuana to be a miracle cure for certain ailments.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

We have shoved facts down your throat for days. Meanwhile you have 1 study that gets posted 3 times a page.

The more educated society becomes, the more it accepts the benefits of marijuana. You are the exception. Maybe that graduate degree is getting to your head.

You are truly delusional and I've wasted enough of my time trying to educate you and ILiketoPuck. It gets annoying when people are too stubborn to acknowledge plain facts.

Come on, man. Lose with a little bit more grace.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm pretty sure there have been recent studies suggesting that low doses of MDMA and Ketamine could potentially treat people with PTSD, but one of the problems with more informative studies has been acquiring these drugs due to their legal status.

Yeah, I think hallucinogenic drugs have interesting aspects to them as well.

Marijuana is just a wretched little drug with massive side effects, but that has benefited from a massive propaganda campaign - mainly driven by corporations who want to make billions of dollars selling the stuff.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by peter12

Actually the studies that have looked into the positive benefits of marijuana have come up with pretty unimpressive results.

You may notice that not one of my posts have mentioned any perceptions about the positive effects of THC.

This is about the negative impacts and whether they are correlated enough (when compared to other substances) to ANY health issues to keep this substance illegal and criminally distributed vs netting tax benefits and reducing law enforcement costs (as well as increasing available research). Especially when considering the same types of correlations for substances we allow to exist in the market and actually prescribe to people.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You may notice that not one of my posts have mentioned any perceptions about the positive effects of THC.

This is about the negative impacts and whether they are correlated enough (when compared to other substances) to ANY health issues to keep this substance illegal and criminally distributed vs netting tax benefits and reducing law enforcement costs (as well as increasing available research). Especially when considering the same types of correlations for substances we allow to exist in the market and actually prescribe to people.

And I have demonstrated with quite a bit of force that the potential health benefits are quite vast, mainly ignored, and tend to effect primarily young people.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That the prosecution and incarceration of people for possession of narcotics is a much bigger burden on our society vs. the treatment of addicts.

EDIT: Or the basic libertarian question of why the hell should the government be able to control what I do an don't put in my own body?

But you want the government to benefit from you abusing your own body through taxation?

Okay.

[woob]