2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Treliving is about 1 first down (which is all done with now), IIRC, and even in other picks traded back and forth. He picked up picks last draft by moving down to take Zary.

Agreed, this narrative that Treliving spends draft picks like an 8 year old spends his allowance at 7-11 is blown way out of proportion.

Often you will see posters point out the picks Treliving has sent out (something every single GM in the league does BTW), but they conveniently leave out the picks he had previously acquired.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Konecny was almost PPG last year and this year has 18 in 23. He’s producing more than Gaudreau over the last 2 years. Plus he’s a RW, so now you c put one of your many LHS forwards on their proper side, presumably Mangiapane or Dube.

He has also been a healthy scratch this year.

There are reasons to be hesitant about him. Fine as part of a deal or at a low cost if acquired on his own.

His even strength play has been really poor at times....much like Gaudreau.

Good player for sure but loses focus/consistency somewhat regularly.

That being said he feels like a guy that would respond to Sutters approach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He has also been a healthy scratch this year.

There are reasons to be hesitant about him. Fine as part of a deal or at a low cost if acquired on his own.

His even strength play has been really poor at times....much like Gaudreau.

Good player for sure but loses focus/consistency somewhat regularly.

That being said he feels like a guy that would respond to Sutters approach.

Oh, I know he’s been a scratch - that’s why they may trade a good young player on a decent LT contract (who’s already been paid $2M cash for this year). I haven’t watched him lately.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I disagree on Patrick being a bust. Firstly, the migrane issues are sorted, he has missed no time because of them since coming back from treating the issue.

Migraine issues are never resolved. Migraines are a chronic condition that can flair up at the worst of times. Suggesting his migraine issue is no longer a concern is not understanding the complexity of migraines themselves. Suggesting that a person with chronic migraines would be a good fit in Calgary, a migraine sufferer's hell scape because of temperature inversions, is quite shortsighted.

Secondly, 29 games played after missing more than a year is woefully shortsighted on your part to call him a bust.

I disagree. You know a dynamic player when you see one. Patrick is not dynamic in any shape or form. Seriously, you have to go all the way back to 1989 to find a #2 overall pick that has looked this bad, and there have been some sketchy number twos out there. Patrick hasn't shown a helluva lot for the Flyers and they have given him opportunity to succeed. To me, he's out Sam Bennetted Sam Bennett. The guy has the NHL size but doesn't have the NHL skill.

It's fine to think that the Flames can extract more value for Johnny, or even think Patrick should be a secondary piece in a deal, but I'm not writing this player off, it's far too early. And like I said, he is buried in Philly.

You have to look at his toolset. What does he do at the elite level? Does he have elite speed? No. Does he have elite puck skills? No. Does he have elite vision or head for the game? No. Does he have an elite shot? No. Is he a sound two way player? Not even remotely. So what is it exactly that makes him an elite talent or even a top six player? He does nothing great that makes him stand out. He's all risk.

Where as in Calgary there's so much room for him to move up and grow into a top line player or even hedging the bets a 2nd liner. And again the on ice portion is not full value but the cap flex to supplement the team is there. So it's like adding a a big fast RHS AND other forwards for Johnny.

The only thing I like about Patrick is he's a right shot. But he has nothing else going for him. I just don't see any upside in this guy. II think he's too risky and would not trade a player of significance for him. Sam Bennett for him? Hell yes! As a principle player in a trade for Johnny Gaudreau? Hell no.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

We should be acquiring more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders to make up for the ones we've lost in trade over the years.

Do that, the cue the rebuild. Trading away top six players for draft picks is throwing the towel in and making a statement we're looking at player 5-6 years downstream.

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem with Gaudreau is Gaudreau. PERIOD. The guy spends more time blowing snow and making button hooks inside the blueline than any other player in the league. He plays scared and is doing this all on his own.

100% this

Monahan is a good 2nd line center. Problem is he's expected to be the Flames #1 center

[Johnhitbox]

I know this isn't the right place to ask. What happened to, Spencer Foo?

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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Young Guns

100% this

Monahan is a good 2nd line center. Problem is he's expected to be the Flames #1 center

Monahan hasn’t shown that he’s a good center in over two calendar years. Why are we thinking he’s a good 2nd line center? He’s effectively been a 2nd line center since Lindholm got moved to C, and Monahan continues to struggle in almost every scenario.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by johnhitbox

i know this isn't the right place to ask. What happened to, spencer foo?

khl.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I know this isn't the right place to ask. What happened to, Spencer Foo?

Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

Contract expired, now in the KHL

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I know this isn't the right place to ask. What happened to, Spencer Foo?

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Decided to pursue a KHL career instead of taking less money to play in the AHL with a slim chance of ever playing in the NHL.

It also allowed him to play in China so that he could meet the requirements to be considered a Chinese national under Olympic rules.

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Monahan hasn’t shown that he’s a good center in over two calendar years. Why are we thinking he’s a good 2nd line center? He’s effectively been a 2nd line center since Lindholm got moved to C, and Monahan continues to struggle in almost every scenario.

Get him off of Gaudreau's line and lets see what he can do. Play him with someone on that wing that will go into the corners and retrieve pucks. Must be exhausting having to play your position and someone else's every shift.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Monahan hasn’t shown that he’s a good center in over two calendar years. Why are we thinking he’s a good 2nd line center? He’s effectively been a 2nd line center since Lindholm got moved to C, and Monahan continues to struggle in almost every scenario.

In that time frame of 2 calendar years Monahan is 33rd among NHL C's for points. 28th if you go back 3 years. Thats clearly way above average for a 2C. In that time I would also say that defensively he has improved in leaps and bounds from his earlier years.

He is a pretty good player who has clearly struggled offensively the last while.

Its Sutters task to get him back to where he can be.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

I know this isn't the right place to ask. What happened to, Spencer Foo?

Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

They actually had him on the News here in Edmonton about 3 weeks back when him and his brother had returned to Edmonton since their KHL Season was done. The quarentine in a Hotel after arriving back in Canada thing had the family confused.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They actually had him on the News here in Edmonton about 3 weeks back when him and his brother had returned to Edmonton since their KHL Season was done. The quarentine in a Hotel after arriving back in Canada thing had the family confused.

That's horrible.

Imagine hearing that you have to return to Edmonton.

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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

In that time frame of 2 calendar years Monahan is 33rd among NHL C's for points. 28th if you go back 3 years. Thats clearly way above average for a 2C. In that time I would also say that defensively he has improved in leaps and bounds from his earlier years.

He is a pretty good player who has clearly struggled offensively the last while.

Its Sutters task to get him back to where he can be.

I wonder where he ranks for production during even strength.

I think when we’re saying “He is a pretty good player who has clearly struggled offensively” that we’d be implying that he’s managed to be an effective player even though he isn’t producing - but that isn’t the case. He has not been an effective player while he isn’t producing. He does pretty much nothing.

It’s one of the reasons why we’re just not a very good team. I think we're at the point where we've exhausted the current roster for potential line-up changes, we've exhausted the coaching changes (...although the PP coach should be shown the door), it's just time we look at the players and how they've played over the last 24 months and just say "yeah, I guess they're not very good - or at least not good enough to win in this league". On the whole "Monahan is a good #2 centre" point from earlier, I think Lindholm has shown himself to be a good #2 centre. He kills penalties, he's on the PP, he delivers strong even strength play - but he also doesn't produce to the level needed of a #1 centre, so he's a nice #2 centre.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

In that time frame of 2 calendar years Monahan is 33rd among NHL C's for points. 28th if you go back 3 years. Thats clearly way above average for a 2C. In that time I would also say that defensively he has improved in leaps and bounds from his earlier years.

He is a pretty good player who has clearly struggled offensively the last while.

Its Sutters task to get him back to where he can be.

I looked back at Monahan's last 100 regular season games. Just 17 even strength goals.

As the team's number one center, and a triggerman no less, that's just not good enough.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem with Gaudreau is Gaudreau. PERIOD. The guy spends more time blowing snow and making button hooks inside the blueline than any other player in the league. He plays scared and is doing this all on his own.



Nolan Patrick is a bust. Just nothing there, and with his migraine issues is a non-starter for an environment like Calgary. But that would be so Calgary, trade for a player with no future a la Gary Leeman.



Yes he is. They hoped he would be a stud, but he ended up being a dud.

Johnny Gaudreau is what he is, he’s an ultra elite offensive talent who can freeze defenders, break down defensive structures, draw defenders and create offense from nothing. The majority of Flames players we’ve seen pass through here have to play within the boundaries or the “rules” of the game to produce offense, Johnny and other elite offensive players like him can go Matrix at times and break those “rules.”

Since his arrival to the league, there are only 5 players ahead of him in even strength scoring. Kane, McDavid, Crosby, Kucherov and Marchand. That’s says a lot about where Gaudreau ultimately stands in the grand scheme of things, he’s up there with the elite of the elite and this organization has failed to nurture his abilities and over the last couple seasons he’s regressed because of it.

Gaudreau’s time with the Flames looks to be all but over at this point and I put that mostly on management for not recognizing and finding the right mix for him to succeed. The physical, dump and chase game was never going to work with Gaudreau because he has his own set of flaws. But the things he can do, are pretty spectacular and he isn’t going to be able to accomplish these things under the current circumstances.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Johnny Gaudreau is what he is, he’s an ultra elite offensive talent who can freeze defenders, break down defensive structures, draw defenders and create offense from nothing. The majority of Flames players we’ve seen pass through here have to play within the boundaries or the “rules” of the game to produce offense, Johnny and other elite offensive players like him can go Matrix at times and break those “rules.”

Since his arrival to the league, there are only 5 players ahead of him in even strength scoring. Kane, McDavid, Crosby, Kucherov and Marchand. That’s says a lot about where Gaudreau ultimately stands in the grand scheme of things, he’s up there with the elite of the elite and this organization has failed to nurture his abilities and over the last couple seasons he’s regressed because of it.

Gaudreau’s time with the Flames looks to be all but over at this point and I put that mostly on management for not recognizing and finding the right mix for him to succeed. The physical, dump and chase game was never going to work with Gaudreau because he has his own set of flaws. But the things he can do, are pretty spectacular and he isn’t going to be able to accomplish these things under the current circumstances.

Don't disagree with anything you've said here. Frankly, the lineup is there to leverage Gaudreau's skills, but for some reason the team believes they are better off with Lindholm at center, which results prove is demonstrably false. They have mismanaged resources and it is nearing the point of burning it to the ground. Treliving should be shown the door and someone else should dismantle the team he's managed into the ground.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I looked back at Monahan's last 100 regular season games. Just 17 even strength goals.

As the team's number one center, and a triggerman no less, that's just not good enough.

It isn’t, but Monahan relies a lot on Gaudreau for a lot of his production and fact is, they’re so predictable to defend at this point. Like, lets look at it from this perspective, if you were playing against the Flames tonight, how would you stop Monahan and Gaudreau?

It’s a pretty easy strategy when you know that the puck will always funnel to Gaudreau. Most of the time, Monahan will pass to Gaudreau to for a zone exit and an offensive zone entry, I believe advanced stats will back that up. So because Gaudreau is a winger, he can easily be trapped against the boards, so you drop back your F3 and F2 and play it conservatively, don’t attack him, keep a good gap and don’t give him time to spin off or go east to west, then put a man on Monahan as well and there, you’ve essentially cut off all his options because it’s very difficult for Gaudreau to make an 80 foot pass through all the sticks and bodies to whoever’s on the right wing. Easy peasy.

This is why every team wants that big #1 center because a puck carrying center can maneuver left or right depending on where the pressure points are less pronounced and can feed it off to either winger equally. If your winger is the primary catalyst in this department, then you’re likely in trouble because his options will be more limited. That’s what I’m seeing with this line, teams know not to be overly aggressive with Gaudreau and Monahan because if you open up the neutral zone for them they’ll feast on you whereas if they play it more conservatively and clog things up, they win.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't disagree with anything you've said here. Frankly, the lineup is there to leverage Gaudreau's skills, but for some reason the team believes they are better off with Lindholm at center, which results prove is demonstrably false. They have mismanaged resources and it is nearing the point of burning it to the ground. Treliving should be shown the door and someone else should dismantle the team he's managed into the ground.

That’s kind of the problem with this organization, they have too many holes to fill with very little pieces to do so. They have virtually zero right wing depth, so lets take the team’s best right winger and move him to center because this team also doesn’t have a good enough #1 center, then because they’re so up against the cap, they have to find bargain bin wingers to slot into important positions for their new pairings only to find out that this these new pairs aren’t strong enough on their own to carry new bargain bin wingers.

So now the Flames are left with fragments of good lines that are sometimes good, but sometimes bad, often inconsistent with nothing to really rely on game to game. The team can’t score at even strength as they’re in a race for last place in the division for even strength goals with the rebuilding Ottawa Senators and surprise, surprise, we’re currently sitting 6th place in the division as well, ahead of only the Ottawa Senators.