Israel declares war on Hamas

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

It’s crazy to me that this argument basically boils down to most people saying “Israel, you’re killing way too many civilians, you need to be more precise with your attacks and save civilian lives”.

Some people are saying that. Others are saying Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians civilians and committing genocide. I think it’s the latter who convince pro-Israelis here that they’re not dealing with reasonable people.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I have said I think it was the Hyde Park bomb, a clearly documented event, you have decided that the group home I worked at in Kensington wasn't close enough to Hyde Park for that even though you have no effing clue where the group home was and Hyde Park is in Kensington and the Gloucester Rd runs up to Hyde Park putting the home within a few blocks of the bomb

Well you're the one that said your first choice of bomb before that was exposed as a lie happened a couple of streets away inKensington/Earls Court area.

Gloucester Rd does NOT run up to Hyde Park and is about two miles from site of Hyde Park bomb.
Not. Even. Close.

Your initial lie was it was two streets away from the group home in Kensington/Earls Ct area. And you state it didn't kill anyone. Now the "latest" bomb is two miles away and the scene of mass carnage.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the bomb went off in Kensington/Earls Ct, I think it was INLA rather than the Provos, it didnt kill anyone but scared the ####e out of us and blew out windows all over the Gloucester Rd,

So don't try and twist the fact you've been caught out telling lies into a prejudice. My issue with you is that you're a drama queen when it comes to the troubles. You didn't get caught up in a bomb. You made it up.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Speaking of the IRA, the English just kept bombing until they arranged a truce right?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Well you're the one that said your first choice of bomb before that was exposed as a lie happened a couple of streets away inKensington/Earls Court area.

Gloucester Rd does NOT run up to Hyde Park and is about two miles from site of Hyde Park bomb.
Not. Even. Close.

Your initial lie was it was two streets away from the group home in Kensington/Earls Ct area. And you state it didn't kill anyone. Now the "latest" bomb is two miles away and the scene of mass carnage.



So don't try and twist the fact you've been caught out telling lies into a prejudice. My issue with you is that you're a drama queen when it comes to the troubles. You didn't get caught up in a bomb. You made it up.

No you just desperatly want that because I'm English

[Bagor]

Yes.
You stated the bomb was two streets away in Kensington/Earls Ct.
Then when that was proven a lie, changed bombs to Hyde Park only for that to be proven a crock of merde as well.
You've had multiple opportunities to explain your lie and failed to do so.
You made it up. It didn't happen.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

. Others are saying Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians civilians and committing genocide. I think it’s the latter who convince pro-Israelis here that they’re not dealing with reasonable people.

Can you clarify? Your thoughts?

You feel that stating that Israel is deliberately killing Palestinian civilians is not a reasonable viewpoint?

[Fuzz]

Ya, or that it's some far out there extreme viewpoint to consider what they are doing genocide? It's not.

Experts, governments, United Nations agencies, and non-governmental organisations have accused Israel of carrying out a genocide against the Palestinian people during its invasion and bombing of the Gaza Strip in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war.[23][24] Various observers, including United Nations Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese,[25] have cited statements by senior Israeli officials that may indicate an "intent to destroy" (in whole or in part) Gaza's population, a necessary condition for the legal threshold of genocide to be met.[23][26][27] A majority of mostly US-based Middle East scholars believe Israel's actions in Gaza were intended to make it uninhabitable for Palestinians, and 75% of them say Israel's actions in Gaza constitute either "major war crimes akin to genocide" or "genocide".

Nimer Sultany writes that as of mid-2024, there is an emerging consensus among legal scholars that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.[221]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide


If you don't think they are commingling genocide, just spend some time on that Wiki page...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Yes.
You stated the bomb was two streets away in Kensington/Earls Ct.
Then when that was proven a lie, changed bombs to Hyde Park only for that to be proven a crock of merde as well.
You've had multiple opportunities to explain your lie and failed to do so.
You made it up. It didn't happen.

It happened, it happened 45 years ago though so unlike you I'm not able to be precise on the details, you clearly have a better memory of my experience working in Kensington in the 1980's

[Bagor]

But you WERE precise on the details. Initially. Until you got challenged on your bs. Then your memory suddenly went vague.

According to you It was two streets away from your group home in Kensington/Earls Ct area and blew out windows all along Gloucester Rd. And killed no one.

Never happened. You lied. End of.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, or that it's some far out there extreme viewpoint to consider what they are doing genocide? It's not.

If you don't think they are commingling genocide, just spend some time on that Wiki page...

UN, HRW, Nobel, Amnesty International…

Apparently people from these organizations as well as experts on the subject are unreasonable, meanwhile Cliff wants kids to be taught all the good things Nazis did, and that’s reasonable. Seems to be like the side that’s supposedly “pro-Israel” is a lot less “pro-Israeli” and a lot more “pro-fascism.”

Makes sense.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Some people are saying that. Others are saying Israel is deliberately killing Palestinians civilians and committing genocide. I think it’s the latter who convince pro-Israelis here that they’re not dealing with reasonable people.

Well when you are waging war without regard for civilian casualties, I think the next logical step is to think whether you're deliberately killing civilians. It's a pretty straightforward and reasonable extrapolation based on how Israel is conducting the war.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Jordan's Foreign Affairs Minister, clearly frustrated, speaking at the UN over the weekend.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1840425819665059931

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...e-established/
"The Israeli prime minister came here today and said that Israel is surrounded by those who want to destroy it,” Safadi said at a Friday press conference shortly after Netanyahu finished his speech at the UN General Assembly.

“We’re here — members of the Muslim-Arab committee, mandated by 57 Arab and Muslim countries — and I can tell you very unequivocally, all of us are willing to guarantee the security of Israel in the context of Israel ending the occupation and allowing for the emergence of a Palestinian state,” Safadi passionately argued.

Netanyahu “is creating that danger because he simply does not want the two-state solution. If he does not want the two-state solution, can you ask Israeli officials what is their end-game — other than just wars and wars and wars?”

“All of us in the Arab world here, want a peace in which Israel lives in peace and security, accepted, normalized with all Arab countries in the context of ending the occupation, withdrawing from Arab territory, allowing for the emergence of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state on the June 4, 1967 lies with East Jerusalem as its capital,” Safadi continues.

"The amount of damage that this Israeli government has done — 30 years of efforts to convince people that peace is possible, this Israeli government killed it. The amount of dehumanization, hatred, bitterness, will take generations to navigate through,” the Jordanian foreign minister says. “We have no partner for peace in Israel, there is a partner for peace in the Arab world, and that’s why the international community needs to move.”

That is excellent. But he neglected to mention one problem - Palestine itself has had opportunities for a two-state solution and has failed to take them. It also does not want that. Would these Arabs be willing to pre-empt Palestinian self-determination and impose this solution on Palestine? Netenyahu wasn't always the PM. Why didn't Palestine make peace with Olmert, Rabin, Peres?

[Fuzz]

Well job one would be getting rid of Bibi.

The Palestine Liberation Organization has accepted the concept of a two-state solution since the 1982 Arab Summit.[clarification needed][4] In 2017, Hamas announced their revised charter, which claims to accept the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognising the statehood of Israel.

The Palestinian Authority today supports the idea of a two-state solution;[9] Israel at times has also supported the idea, but nowadays rejects the creation of a Palestinian state.[10] Long-serving Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu in 2015 rejected a Palestinian state.[11] He again rejected a Palestinian state in June 2023.[12][13] Former Israeli PMs Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert in late 2023 expressed support for a two-state solution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution


I'm not sure you can defacto say whoever is representing the Palestinians at the time rejected 2 state solution, they may have rejected the proposed 2 state solution that didn't meet their needs. Regardless of the past, a two state solution now seems to be the only viable one. Well that, or Israel's goal of slowly slaughtering and taking everything until their is only one state. Which, lets be honest, is exactly what is happening and is also entirely unacceptable.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well job one would be getting rid of Bibi.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution


I'm not sure you can defacto say whoever is representing the Palestinians at the time rejected 2 state solution, they may have rejected the proposed 2 state solution that didn't meet their needs. Regardless of the past, a two state solution now seems to be the only viable one. Well that, or Israel's goal of slowly slaughtering and taking everything until their is only one state. Which, lets be honest, is exactly what is happening and is also entirely unacceptable.

PLO’s desires is a two state solution without the existence of Israel, says it right in the quote. That’s a completely unreasonable offer, and essentially, implicitly implying they do not want a two state solution.

[activeStick]

Was hoping it was fake news that I saw around Twitter last night, but it looks to be true that Israel is now invading Lebanon. I know the US is 100% against the invasion of sovereign nations, so am expecting them to step in and stop this immediately since they are the bright shining light of the free world.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

PLO’s desires is a two state solution without the existence of Israel, says it right in the quote. That’s a completely unreasonable offer, and essentially, implicitly implying they do not want a two state solution.

No, that's Hamas's position. Hamas could be sidelined with the right strategy. The PLO is rational enough to negotiate with.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, that's Hamas's position. Hamas could be sidelined with the right strategy. The PLO is rational enough to negotiate with.

Ouff, my mistake. Sorry about that.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Reports of ongoing Iranian missile attack on Israel.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

Reports of ongoing Iranian missile attack on Israel.

Oh shoot, saw the tweets this morning about the threat of it. Looks like they've launched.

[Looch City]

Wasn't this the same as before? They'll just be shot down and Iran can save face or whatever.