Israel declares war on Hamas

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I see you ignore the percise warnings point, and deflect to the next point. I guess that's what you have to do when you don't have a leg to stand on.

As far as the Palestinians having to evacuate hundreds of thousands, yes that's because they elected the Hamas. They let Hamas and other terrorist organizations entrench themselves in the population, and they continue to be the aggressors.

Would they need to be evacuated if 250 Israeli hostages weren't hidden among them? Would they need to evacuate if their homes didn't have Hamas munitions inside them? Maybe no one would need to move if no one would launch rockets from next to civilian homes.

Palestinians get to say "it's us or them". It's fine for them to call for death to Israel and death to all Jews, but when Israel strikes back it's always hitting only innocents that had nothing to do with anything.

I can’t continue to engage with someone so disgusting that they throw all the blame on a population who has been oppressed, murdered, and purposefully eliminated. As has been stated many times before, most of the population of Gaza was not alive the last time they held an election. As has been stated many times before, Hamas is not in power in the West Bank and the Israeli settlers and IDF continue to commit atrocities there. Yet I am the one “deflecting”.

I hope in the decades to come when the atrocities that the IDF is committing are fully brought to light, that people like you come to realize you supported a regime that had no regard for innocent civilians and murdered without impunity.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Hamas only won with 44% of the vote, but at the time people also didn't know they were going to seize control of the country, either. And that it would be their last election. So to condemn those living now in Gaza to the result of that vote is pretty wrongheaded. "See, this is what they did, so #### 'em" is a pretty cold take for those struggling to survive.

Fatah had to cancel the last election, set for 2021, because Hamas was clearly going to win. Polls had Hamas winning 60% of the vote, in all of of Palestine, with a much higher percentage in Gaza. As things got closer to the election, Hamas began to surge ahead in the polls.

There were also more extremist parties than Hamas like Palestinian Islamic Jihad with a significant share of the vote.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next...ative_election

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I can’t continue to engage with someone so disgusting that they throw all the blame on a population who has been oppressed, murdered, and purposefully eliminated. As has been stated many times before, most of the population of Gaza was not alive the last time they held an election. As has been stated many times before, Hamas is not in power in the West Bank and the Israeli settlers and IDF continue to commit atrocities there. Yet I am the one “deflecting”.

I hope in the decades to come when the atrocities that the IDF is committing are fully brought to light, that people like you come to realize you supported a regime that had no regard for innocent civilians and murdered without impunity.

Of course, keep deflacting. You're just fine with rockets flying at the Israeli population, but when civilians inevitably die because Hamas is using them as human shields, then again Israel is at fault. Your ideal would be for Israel to just take it, attack after attack.

You don't care about the innocent civilians, you only care about Israel fighting back. It doesn't matter what Israel does, you'll always find them at fault. I guess the Canadian Army was killing Afghan civilians with impunity because there were 46,000 dead, that's the logic you're trying to apply to Israel, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The election was 18 years ago. If what you say is true and as long as we're on the subject of time then most Palestinians weren't alive, in 1967, or 1948. While most Israelis were born in the land of Israel. Yet, I'm sure you support the Palestinians' right to resist because you see it as their land, but at the same time you don't see Hamas as their representatives.

[PepsiFree]

Right from the beginning gvitaly was fully brainwashed, wishing death on Palestinians, other posters, and sharing debunked propaganda and videos from the far right. It’s not like he’s changed. Hell, he hasn’t changed from the time when he was supporting Russia annexing Crimea.

There’s no way he’s ever going to “realize” anything. He knows exactly what is happening and is supportive of it.

[Language]

So now that Israel has done the dirty work and decimated Hezbollah’s top leadership in two weeks, I wonder how this plays out.

Does the Lebanon army come in and attempt to regain control of their own country, which was infiltrated by a terrorist organization? It’s not that simple since Hezbollah is part of the government and Lebanon’s government has been impotent for quite some time, but at some point, do they try to take control of their own country?

Does the UN finally grow a backbone and try to enforce UN Resolution 1701, which technically should have been enforced since 2006?

Do other Arab countries and a coalition task force of some sort step in, to weed out Hezbollah (like they did with ISIS), to enforce peace in the area?

Is it left up to Israel to continue to batter Hezbollah and try and manage the inflow of weapons from Iran, while the world is concerned about further escalation, even though no one did anything to stop the past 11 months of rocket attacks? Something tells me it’s this last option.

I truly do hope Lebanon does not squander this opportunity to unify their country and restore their sovereignty over the whole of Lebanon, and somehow forces what remains of Hezbollah to shove it.


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[Fuzz]

If you favour Israel, you might want to be careful about your demand for countries to start honouring UN resolutions...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cerning_Israel

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Language

So now that Israel has done the dirty work and decimated Hezbollah’s top leadership in two weeks, I wonder how this plays out.

Does the Lebanon army come in and attempt to regain control of their own country, which was infiltrated by a terrorist organization? It’s not that simple since Hezbollah is part of the government and Lebanon’s government has been impotent for quite some time, but at some point, do they try to take control of their own country?

Does the UN finally grow a backbone and try to enforce UN Resolution 1701, which technically should have been enforced since 2006?

Do other Arab countries and a coalition task force of some sort step in, to weed out Hezbollah (like they did with ISIS), to enforce peace in the area?

Is it left up to Israel to continue to batter Hezbollah and try and manage the inflow of weapons from Iran, while the world is concerned about further escalation, even though no one did anything to stop the past 11 months of rocket attacks? Something tells me it’s this last option.


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Question for you (I asked this before but it was ignored by the pro-IDF crowd).

Does the last two weeks and Israel’s ability to decimate Hezbollah’s top leadership not show you the level of precision, intelligence, and competence of the military? They completely infiltrated Hezbollah’s communications supply chains to carry out targeted attacks and have used precision air strikes to eliminate leadership.

Do you not see this and think they could be more precise in their elimination of Hamas targets? Certainly even the US seems to think so, so how can you continue to support military action when they clearly aren’t using their full capabilities to reduce civilian murders?

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-eas...-gaza-c275ed12

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Of course, keep deflacting. You're just fine with rockets flying at the Israeli population, but when civilians inevitably die because Hamas is using them as human shields, then again Israel is at fault. Your ideal would be for Israel to just take it, attack after attack.

You don't care about the innocent civilians, you only care about Israel fighting back. It doesn't matter what Israel does, you'll always find them at fault. I guess the Canadian Army was killing Afghan civilians with impunity because there were 46,000 dead, that's the logic you're trying to apply to Israel, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The election was 18 years ago. If what you say is true and as long as we're on the subject of time then most Palestinians weren't alive, in 1967, or 1948. While most Israelis were born in the land of Israel. Yet, I'm sure you support the Palestinians' right to resist because you see it as their land, but at the same time you don't see Hamas as their representatives.

Only one us truly cares about civilians. Only one of us feels that Palestinian civilians are worth the same as Israeli civilians. Only one of us feels to there are actions the IDF can take to minimize civilian casualties while still invoking their right to defend themselves. Only one of us thinks the IDF is not taking those actions.

Only you think a Palestinian life is expendable in the name of Israeli security. Only you continue to support the IDF no matter how many people cry out for Israel to change their tactics in the war. Only you turn a completely blind eye to the indiscriminate bombing and displacement of millions of people.

So what type of mental gymnastics go on in that sick head of yours to convince yourself that only you care about civilians.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

So now that Israel has done the dirty work and decimated Hezbollah’s top leadership in two weeks, I wonder how this plays out.

Does the Lebanon army come in and attempt to regain control of their own country, which was infiltrated by a terrorist organization? It’s not that simple since Hezbollah is part of the government and Lebanon’s government has been impotent for quite some time, but at some point, do they try to take control of their own country?

Does the UN finally grow a backbone and try to enforce UN Resolution 1701, which technically should have been enforced since 2006?

Do other Arab countries and a coalition task force of some sort step in, to weed out Hezbollah (like they did with ISIS), to enforce peace in the area?

Is it left up to Israel to continue to batter Hezbollah and try and manage the inflow of weapons from Iran, while the world is concerned about further escalation, even though no one did anything to stop the past 11 months of rocket attacks? Something tells me it’s this last option.

I truly do hope Lebanon does not squander this opportunity to unify their country and restore their sovereignty over the whole of Lebanon, and somehow forces what remains of Hezbollah to shove it.


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I think you’re dreaming a bit here. Hezbollah hasn’t been decimated, Israel’s goal is to push them from the border and they haven’t accomplished that yet. There is a power vacuum created by killing their leader, but they’re still the strongest paramilitary group in the region by far.

The US (and many others) give billions to Israel, so I’m not sure where the narrative of things being “left” for them to do comes from. They’re able to do so because of enormous international support, even as they squander and defy international diplomacy and peace efforts.

It feels like escalation isn’t a concern to you, which is concerning in itself that pro-war people aren’t bothered by or aren’t concerned by the end game. Are you only going to be happy when the nukes come out and a truly final resolution is reached for one side or the other?

[Language]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Question for you (I asked this before but it was ignored by the pro-IDF crowd).

Does the last two weeks and Israel’s ability to decimate Hezbollah’s top leadership not show you the level of precision, intelligence, and competence of the military? They completely infiltrated Hezbollah’s communications supply chains to carry out targeted attacks and have used precision air strikes to eliminate leadership.

Do you not see this and think they could be more precise in their elimination of Hamas targets? Certainly even the US seems to think so, so how can you continue to support military action when they clearly aren’t using their full capabilities to reduce civilian murders?

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-eas...-gaza-c275ed12

I’ll try and give you my honest take on it. It may seem that Israel dismantled Hezbollah’s top leadership with relative ease over the past few weeks, but we have no idea what went into it.

- how did Israel know exactly where Hezbollah’s top leadership was to precision strike them so accurately? In my opinion, Hezbollah’s leadership must have either been comprised, or Israel doesn’t need to try very hard to find non-Shia Lebanese willing to provide intelligence for them. After all, a large majority of Lebanese despise Hezbollah. Is it that easy in Gaza and Hamas? It’s been almost a year and Israel still can’t locate Sinwar beneath the tunnels.

- Landscape. Israel has primarily been able to dismantle Hezbollah’s top leadership without setting a single boot on the ground. Lebanon’s south (Hezbollah strongholds) is less densely populated than Gaza, so the airstrikes have had less of a civilian impact. Israel has taken a similar approach in Gaza, mind you, but when airstrikes are conducted, it causes more widespread damage and they are obviously getting significant heat for it.

- Pager attack. Clearly a very sophisticated attack and something that even reads out of a fiction espionage tale. Israel clearly had this in the works for a very long time, having infiltrated Hezbollah’s communication network. Unclear if that is possible in Hamas, as we don’t know what they use to communicate. Hamas seems much more disorganized and likely utilizes runners and the tunnel network at this point.

I don’t see a clear parallel between the two. Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas has embedded in a very urban environment in Gaza, in literally the most extensive tunnel terror network maze ever created. Israel has had a ground invasion there for 11 months, thousands of troops, and even with ground and air attacks, has still not fully rooted out Hamas.


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[Zary's-Mustache]

If people think hezbollah has been decimated you're sadly mistaken.

This is only going to make things worse in Lebanon and more unstable which in turn will make Israel less safe.

It's next man up for Hezbollah. When Hassan Nasrallahs son Hadi was killed by Israel, he didn't shed a tear. That's how commited Hezbollah is and these killings didn't make Israel safer, actually quite the opposite.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

If people think hezbollah has been decimated you're sadly mistaken.

This is only going to make things worse in Lebanon and more unstable which in turn will make Israel less safe.

It's next man up for Hezbollah. When Hassan Nasrallahs son Hadi was killed by Israel, he didn't shed a tear. That's how commited Hezbollah is and these killings didn't make Israel safer, actually quite the opposite.

I should have said their senior leadership was decimated. I fully understand that in these terror organizations, when one is eliminated, another ten rats crawl into their place. They likely still have much of their arsenal and in place.

How would you recommend Israel deal with Hezbollah, out of curiosity?


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[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Language

I should have said their senior leadership was decimated. I fully understand that in these terror organizations, when one is eliminated, another ten rats crawl into their place. They likely still have much of their arsenal and in place.

How would you recommend Israel deal with Hezbollah, out of curiosity?


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Well since I despise Hezbollah it would have been nice if they weren't even created but we all know why and how they were created more than 40 years ago.

And when their old leader was killed, guess who stepped in? Was israel safer in these last 40 years?

Israel needs to understand that these indiscriminate bombings of Gaza and Lebanon only makes them more unsafe into the future.

Maybe they need to try not being more evil than the people they're fighting.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Well since I despise Hezbollah it would have been nice if they weren't even created but we all know why and how they were created more than 40 years ago.

And when their old leader was killed, guess who stepped in? Was israel safer in these last 40 years?

Israel needs to understand that these indiscriminate bombings of Gaza and Lebanon only makes them more unsafe into the future.

Maybe they need to try not being more evil than the people they're fighting.

So I’ll ask you again, how should Israel deal with the threat of Hezbollah? What is the not evil, nice guy approach to dealing with a terrorist organization hell bent on your destruction?


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[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Language

I’ll try and give you my honest take on it. It may seem that Israel dismantled Hezbollah’s top leadership with relative ease over the past few weeks, but we have no idea what went into it.

- how did Israel know exactly where Hezbollah’s top leadership was to precision strike them so accurately? In my opinion, Hezbollah’s leadership must have either been comprised, or Israel doesn’t need to try very hard to find non-Shia Lebanese willing to provide intelligence for them. After all, a large majority of Lebanese despise Hezbollah. Is it that easy in Gaza and Hamas? It’s been almost a year and Israel still can’t locate Sinwar beneath the tunnels.

- Landscape. Israel has primarily been able to dismantle Hezbollah’s top leadership without setting a single boot on the ground. Lebanon’s south (Hezbollah strongholds) is less densely populated than Gaza, so the airstrikes have had less of a civilian impact. Israel has taken a similar approach in Gaza, mind you, but when airstrikes are conducted, it causes more widespread damage and they are obviously getting significant heat for it.

- Pager attack. Clearly a very sophisticated attack and something that even reads out of a fiction espionage tale. Israel clearly had this in the works for a very long time, having infiltrated Hezbollah’s communication network. Unclear if that is possible in Hamas, as we don’t know what they use to communicate. Hamas seems much more disorganized and likely utilizes runners and the tunnel network at this point.

I don’t see a clear parallel between the two. Hamas and Hezbollah. Hamas has embedded in a very urban environment in Gaza, in literally the most extensive tunnel terror network maze ever created. Israel has had a ground invasion there for 11 months, thousands of troops, and even with ground and air attacks, has still not fully rooted out Hamas.


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So you’re going to completely ignore the evidence provided that even Israel’s closest ally and significant source of funding was pleading with them that they need to change tactics and use more precision airstrikes? They got a senior Hamas official in the middle of Tehran and Nasrallah in Beirut. Last time I checked, those were pretty densely populated cities.

And then you actually think Mossad, one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, has better intelligence in Lebanon, than in their literal backyard in Gaza, which is half the size of Calgary?

And just because you personally don’t see a parallel, even if the US do and are urging more precision, that means there’s nothing the IDF can do to reduce civilian casualties?

Clearly you must be an expert on military tactics? I most certainly am not, but I think when even daddy warbucks is telling you you need to change what you’re doing, that’s a pretty obvious tell that you probably aren’t as “moral” as you think you are.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Language

So I’ll ask you again, how should Israel deal with the threat of Hezbollah? What is the not evil, nice guy approach to dealing with a terrorist organization hell bent on your destruction?


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I already answered. They should start by not creating more Hezbollahs and deal with them like they have for the last 40 years.

How should the world deal with the terrorist state of Israel? Should we keep sending them weapons for their genocidal ways?

[Language]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

So you’re going to completely ignore the evidence provided that even Israel’s closest ally and significant source of funding was pleading with them that they need to change tactics and use more precision airstrikes?

And then you actually think Mossad, one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, has better intelligence in Lebanon, than in Gaza, which is half the size of Calgary?

And just because you personally don’t see a parallel, even if the US do and are urging more precision, that means there’s nothing the IDF can do to reduce civilian casualties?

Clearly you must be an expert on military tactics? I most certainly am not, but I think when daddy warbucks is telling you you need to change what you’re doing, that’s a pretty obvious tell that you probably aren’t as “moral” as you think you are.

Daddy warbucks doesn’t have the cleanest record when it comes to its war on terror, so I don’t necessarily think listening to the U.S advice on how to conduct their war, should be the barometer here.


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[Language]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

I already answered. They should start by not creating more Hezbollahs and deal with them like they have for the last 40 years.

How should the world deal with the terrorist state of Israel? Should we keep sending them weapons for their genocidal ways?

So you don’t have an answer. Hezbollah is here. Let’s deal with the facts as they are today, not revisionist history from 40 years ago.

It’s a simple question really. How should Israel deal with Hezbollah? If you have such a strong opinion on the matter, you should be able to answer it, without turning the question around on me.


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[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Language

So now that Israel has done the dirty work and decimated Hezbollah’s top leadership in two weeks, I wonder how this plays out.

Does the Lebanon army come in and attempt to regain control of their own country, which was infiltrated by a terrorist organization? It’s not that simple since Hezbollah is part of the government and Lebanon’s government has been impotent for quite some time, but at some point, do they try to take control of their own country?

Does the UN finally grow a backbone and try to enforce UN Resolution 1701, which technically should have been enforced since 2006?

Do other Arab countries and a coalition task force of some sort step in, to weed out Hezbollah (like they did with ISIS), to enforce peace in the area?

Is it left up to Israel to continue to batter Hezbollah and try and manage the inflow of weapons from Iran, while the world is concerned about further escalation, even though no one did anything to stop the past 11 months of rocket attacks? Something tells me it’s this last option.

I truly do hope Lebanon does not squander this opportunity to unify their country and restore their sovereignty over the whole of Lebanon, and somehow forces what remains of Hezbollah to shove it.


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This post is actually cute lol. It honestly shows you have no clue about the region.

You think because Hassan Nasrallah was killed that a broke country and weak Lebanese army can go up against Hezbollah and its arsenal it still has?

Like do you even know anything about Lebanon where it causes you to type those words? It's honestly funny you think that's even a remote possibility.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Language

Daddy warbucks doesn’t have the cleanest record when it comes to its war on terror, so I don’t necessarily think listening to the U.S advice on how to conduct their war, should be the barometer here.


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Wow great strawman! But I already showed you how their civilian to death ratio is actually better than what the IDF is doing in Gaza, but you ignored that message?

So to get that right, according to you, we shouldn’t listen to the US, Israel’s greatest ally, because they don’t have a clean record. The UN and most other nations in the world also urging Israel to change tactics also can’t be trusted. So really, the only trustable source of information is Israel? Or which one of Israel’s allies can we trust? Are there any left??

All of that certainly makes sense in the context of your post history, and clearly shows why you can’t be reasoned with.