2009 NCAA football thread!!

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

What experts? The guys at ESPN that get paid to push opinions?

Not just guys from ESPN.

Do you think the playoff and the plus one are comparable in terms of the changes they bring? You think they're equally palatable to the conferences?

Never argued that they were.

Your argument for why the playoff could work is that "at some point the money will be bigger". Sure, yes at some point the money could be big enough for the playoff to work, but since when are but-ifs an argument?

Since arguments started.

The but-ifs aren't unreasonable and quite possible that they could happen.

Since when is ignoring what it likely to occur in the future an argument?

[Gugstanley]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...yhoo&type=lgns

This article points out whyit is difficultfor teams like Utah and Boise St to schedule big games out of conference. It also points out we don't get big game out of conference match up during the season anymore because of the BCS.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

The but-ifs aren't unreasonable and quite possible that they could happen.

Since when is ignoring what it likely to occur in the future an argument?

Likely to occur? Why? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Claiming something is likely to occur is complete make believe without some basis behind it.

I don't think the conferences will go for a top 8 system because it offers no guarantee that their champions will be involved and thereby deprives them of the monetary and non-monetary gains that would come along with playoff participation. See what I did? I gave a reason why.

There may be a way to make a playoff work, and whether you setup a system and then work backwards or the other way around doesn't really matter, but you can't create it in a vacuum.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Gugstanley

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...yhoo&type=lgns

This article points out whyit is difficultfor teams like Utah and Boise St to schedule big games out of conference. It also points out we don't get big game out of conference match up during the season anymore because of the BCS.

I agree with that completely. If there's going to a be a polling system in place teams need to get big rewards for beating good teams and less punishment for losing to good teams.

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Likely to occur? Why? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Claiming something is likely to occur is complete make believe without some basis behind it.

I don't think the conferences will go for a top 8 system because it offers no guarantee that their champions will be involved and thereby deprives them of the monetary and non-monetary gains that would come along with playoff participation. See what I did? I gave a reason why.

There may be a way to make a playoff work, and whether you setup a system and then work backwards or the other way around doesn't really matter, but you can't create it in a vacuum.

Likely to occur because the system has been moving closer to that way for awhile now. Also, eventually the outcry from the public and money from TV/sponsorships is going to force the issue.

The BCS has narrowly avoided some real disasters lately but it isn't crazy to see an instance where a Cincy-Boise St. type game occurs and that would be a real hit to the BCS system.

I don't think that it is happening in the next five years but things are going to change and it just makes to much sense to have a play-off for it not eventually occur.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

Likely to occur because the system has been moving closer to that way for awhile now. Also, eventually the outcry from the public and money from TV/sponsorships is going to force the issue.

The BCS has narrowly avoided some real disasters lately but it isn't crazy to see an instance where a Cincy-Boise St. type game occurs and that would be a real hit to the BCS system.

I don't think that it is happening in the next five years but things are going to change and it just makes to much sense to have a play-off for it not eventually occur.

Long term I agree, things will fall that way as some point. A big part of my support for a plus one is that it's a step towards a playoff without going overboard. Too many people want to blow up the whole thing, and I simply don't get that thinking when smaller changes can be made.

So in summary, I'm for tweaks and changes and against explosions.

[Gugstanley]

A plus one game is the first step toward a playoff system. March madness started small and grew.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Gugstanley

A plus one game is the first step toward a playoff system. March madness started small and grew.

March Madness is the last thing college football wants to grow into.

Everyone loves it, but who actually watches regular season college basketball? The bowl system gets ridiculously good ratings already so why would they want to sacrifice their regular season ratings for a playoff system when the ratings are already there for the bowls?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That scenario right now is impossible. Only because of the system in place. But there is no way you will convince me that such a scenario would somehow diminish the regular season. in fact I think it would enhance things dramatically as the regular season would then actually mean you get into such a schedule only if you are good enough to be in the top 8 or 16. Obviously polls would still have to be part of the mix...but at least the outcomes would be decided between the lines and any mistakes by voters/computers as to who is better would be straightened out with no dispute.

You can love a playoff system all you want, but don't try and BS everyone by saying it would make the regular season better.

As I've said before, there's very few teams out there that schedule their non-conference games with the intention of swaying BCS voters. That's a fact I've heard many times from prominent college football sportswriters. The schedules are set so far in advance that it's almost impossible to judge whether the game will mean anything. Regardless of that, there are factors (which I listed yesterday) that weigh more heavily on a school than impressing voters.

Even if we were going to get theoretical and assume schedules are based on swaying voters, what incentive is there to play any decent non-con games? I've said this many times, but in a 16-team playoff 9-3 seasons get you in for programs like Texas, Florida, USC, etc. Those programs at 9-3 will always get in over a 9-3 Oregon St. no matter who they play. So the incentive for them is to beat 4 cupcakes, go 5-3 or better in conference and still make the playoffs. If they go 8-0 or 7-1 in conference, great, they may not be ranked #1 because of their schedule, but they'll still be a 3-5 seed and in good shape for the playoffs.

[ratech]

I don't know jack about this, but why don't they make it like english premiere league? You would have the best teams in the country playing against each other every year continuously and teams can move up and down based on performance. Just a thought and interested why this will be shot down by very informative posters of the current system.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ratech

I don't know jack about this, but why don't they make it like english premiere league? You would have the best teams in the country playing against each other every year continuously and teams can move up and down based on performance. Just a thought and interested why this will be shot down by very informative posters of the current system.

That would actually be pretty cool, but it would really only be possible if you were starting from scratch. The system now has a number of conferences that have way too much money invested for the whole thing to be scrapped.

Another issue would be the number of games, anything over 12-14 would be pretty difficult to do at the college level. So in order to have every team play each other (and forgetting about a home and away game against everyone) you'd be limited to 13-15 team divisions. With 119 (is it still that many?) teams in division 1 you'd be looking at 8+ divisions, that would make a climb to the top divisions from the bottom pretty much impossible when you consider that teams are cycling guys through at a 4 year rate.

It's still a cool idea though, I've always loved the relegation/promotion system.

[Montana Moe]

I know this is all conjecture, but what if the big boys still played their conference schedule, but their non-conference opponents were scheduled in the relegation/promotion system?

Not playing every team in their level, but 3-4 teams like today, keeping the total games at 12.

I'd much rather see LSU play VA Tech, Oregon, and Missouri instead of Tulane, NW Louisiana, and Troy.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

I know this is all conjecture, but what if the big boys still played their conference schedule, but their non-conference opponents were scheduled in the relegation/promotion system?

Not playing every team in their level, but 3-4 teams like today, keeping the total games at 12.

I'd much rather see LSU play VA Tech, Oregon, and Missouri instead of Tulane, NW Louisiana, and Troy.

Schedules are made 5+ years in advance. It's almost impossible to judge who is at their "level" aside from a few major programs (and even then no one could predict Florida State and Miami's downfalls).

If anything, this just leaves out the Iowa's and the Cincinnati's even more. Or opens a whole new can of worms. Who's the better team - the Texas team that was handed 3 good non-con opponents that went 11-1 or the Colorado team that surprises everyone by going 12-0, but doesn't get to prove itself against the big boys in non-con play.

It seems like a system like this would only give a handful of teams a chance at finishing #1 or 2.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Who's the better team - the Texas team that was handed 3 good non-con opponents that went 11-1 or the Colorado team that surprises everyone by going 12-0, but doesn't get to prove itself against the big boys in non-con play.

I would say whichever one wins when they play in the Big 12 championship game.

[JohnnyFlame]

I have to say as a longtime Notre Dame fan that I'm happy with the Bowl system. Notre Dame has been involved in many a great bowl game. That the true National champion isn't always being determined don't really matter a whole lot IMO. Whatever. I'm happy if it's a good year for ND as I'm sure everyone else is for their team. IF they win the championship it's great but it ain't pro sports so it really don't matter a whole lot.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by moon

I would say whichever one wins when they play in the Big 12 championship game.

You missed the point entirely.

Replace Colorado with Washington St.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

You missed the point entirely.

Replace Colorado with Washington St.

It was a joke.

I realize what you were saying.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

I know this is all conjecture, but what if the big boys still played their conference schedule, but their non-conference opponents were scheduled in the relegation/promotion system?

Not playing every team in their level, but 3-4 teams like today, keeping the total games at 12.

I'd much rather see LSU play VA Tech, Oregon, and Missouri instead of Tulane, NW Louisiana, and Troy.

A big issue I see with that is the loss of non-conference rivalry games. Iowa - Iowa State, Florida - Florida St, Anyone - ND, etc.

Those games are huge for the teams and fans, I don't see how you could convince a school to let those games go.

[transplant99]

The Southeastern Conference has suspended officials from last weekend's Arkansas-Florida game after the crew was involved in its second controversial call of the year.

Referee Marc Curles' crew called a personal foul on Arkansas defensive lineman Malcolm Sheppard in the fourth quarter as the Gators were rallying for a 23-20 victory. The league said there was no video evidence to support the call.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4583642

[PIMking]

I will be in starkville for the UF vs MSU game. I gotta scalp tickets but I will be at the game!

I will post pics of the game after I get home around midnight or so.