I'm a car salesmen, Go ahead and ask me anything

[yads]

Originally Posted by photon

They're below industry average for dependability according to JD Power:

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dep...tudy=909201236

Don't forget those are for 2009 models.

[photon]

Originally Posted by yads

Don't forget those are for 2009 models.

Of course, dependability can only be measured over time.

They also have stuff on initial build quality.

http://www.jdpower.com/consumer-rati...tudy=909201120

The EX fares well for quality of design, but less so for actual mechanical quality.

Still Infiniti was above average overall for initial build quality, though really the separation among the middle of the pack is pretty small.

Moral of the story; buy a Lexus.

[Table 5]

I always thought Initial Build Quality was such an irrelevant metric. A lot of those issues tend to be minor, and will inevitably be covered by your warranty.

What really matter and shows the true quality of a car is how dependable it is once it goes off warranty. Those are the issues that will start costing you money. It's obviously hard to predict the future of a new car, which is why it's never the best idea to buy a first-year model of anything if you plan to keep it around for a while.

Also a lot of the most troublesome cars are the ones that are packed to the gills with electronics. The more expensive your car is, and the more stuff it has, the more likely something will go wrong. If you want the most reliable EX, buy the most basic one you can live with!

[burn_this_city]

Good to see Dodge living up to their reputation.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I always thought Initial Build Quality was such an irrelevant metric. A lot of those issues tend to be minor, and will inevitably be covered by your warranty.

Pretty much, though if you go to the site they do break it up so you can see the difference between Features & Accessories and Powertrain.

But I agree, I wouldn't take too much from it other than seeing broad strokes of how likely it is you'll be in the shop right away.

My wife likes the EX too, I'm trying to convince her to go with a GLK

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Good to see Dodge living up to their reputation.

Haha yeah. VW is pretty low on the list as well, which is why the pro-VW crowd is so confounding to me.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Haha yeah. VW is pretty low on the list as well, which is why the pro-VW crowd is so confounding to me.

The pro-VW crowd usually tends to become an anti-VW crowd right about the time they actually own one for longer than 2 years.

I still don't understand why VW doesn't put more emphasis on building up their reliability. It's the one concern that everyone has with that brand, and they just ignore it.

[Kybosh]

I'm glad to see Ram being much better than Dodge for problems. The 2012 1500's are sexy trucks and I'm patiently waiting to see what kind of engine/transmission options become available in the 2013 models. I've read that they might be getting an 8-speed transmission combined with the pentastar V6 in addition to the regular V8 Hemi.

[93Hound]

Originally Posted by Finner

I just had a relatively bad experience with the dealership when the sales guy tried to hide the fact they were entering an Ontario postal code when calculating cost, (which has 13% sales tax).

Seriously, if you aren't a dick, i'm fine with a fair deal. I know the MSRP, what GST is and what freight costs you. Why try and charge me more?

I found during shopping that the sales guys are normally the nice upfront guys, and its the "finance managers" or whatever are the DBs.

Why do you think the Finance managers are the DB's?
I spent 18 years in the auto industry, 12 as a salesman and 6 as a finance manager. I woudl treat the client the same way as a salesman or finance manager. The finance manager has to tryu and sell an intangible product while the sales guy sells the car. The finance manager works on commission just like the sales guy does. Imagine if you will a cash deal for teh sale guy..... makes no difference. He will still get paid a % of thye gross on the vehicle and make his money no matter what happens.....
The finance manager has to sell his products, warranty, undercoating etc. if sells nothing then that finance manager may make on about $10 on the deal...... that's the cold hard truth. That's why some finance managers come across a little harder than the sales guy.... they have to work harder to sell something you can't see.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by 93Hound

Why do you think the Finance managers are the DB's?
I spent 18 years in the auto industry, 12 as a salesman and 6 as a finance manager. I woudl treat the client the same way as a salesman or finance manager. The finance manager has to tryu and sell an intangible product while the sales guy sells the car. The finance manager works on commission just like the sales guy does. Imagine if you will a cash deal for teh sale guy..... makes no difference. He will still get paid a % of thye gross on the vehicle and make his money no matter what happens.....
The finance manager has to sell his products, warranty, undercoating etc. if sells nothing then that finance manager may make on about $10 on the deal...... that's the cold hard truth. That's why some finance managers come across a little harder than the sales guy.... they have to work harder to sell something you can't see.

Fine, then do a good job convincing me I need undercoating and an extended warranty. Trying to steal 8% by using an Ontario postal code is as sleazy as it gets.

[cral12]

Thanks for the insight guys - much appreciated.
No matter how you take how meaningful those results are, Lexus is damn impressive!

[Sr. Mints]

We're planning on paying cash for a car: how best to go about this? Can we expect any sort of discount?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

We're planning on paying cash for a car: how best to go about this? Can we expect any sort of discount?

I can help with this one.

Maybe or no.

Car dealers don't want you to pay cash, big myth. We make money on the financing through an interest rate reserve, and it opens up products on the loan not available on a cash sale. Specifically life and disability insurance, also it makes the sale of add-ons much easier because they now become a monthly instalment, not an upfront cost. In fact many dealers will give you a BETTER deal knowing you will finance, as they can bank on some back end profit. You usually see a financed customer again, and they are easier to retain, I believe the re-visit rate is something like 70%. Where as 80% of cash customers you never see again, so unless you are trying to unload overstocks or distressed inventory, you may be better to just let them walk.

This is my advice. Go to car-cost Canada, and pay for a quote for exactly what you want. Use that quote to get your best deal. However, DO NOT walk into a dealer with the quote in your hand, or let them know you are a car-cost customer. Just say "I can get this deal elsewhere, will you match it."

Dealers typically have terrible experiences with car-cost customers because:

A) they believe the quote is a legally binding document (which it isn't)
B) Car-cost customers are typically not friendly in the sense they don't believe the dealers should be allowed to make a nickel. Personally, I would never deal with them. Yeah, they were a guaranteed sale usually, but the customers were so unbelievably unreasonable sometimes, they weren't worth the brain damage.

The biggest issue with them is they never see value in quality service. All they see is the bottom line number and have zero loyalty. All they typically care about is "How Cheap?" and will always go that route for their service needs. So really they bring nothing to the table for the dealer besides moving a piece of inventory and making 3 or 400 bucks to do so. The average dealer spends $350 in advertising, to bring each customer in the door.

One of our sales people just got into with a Car-Cost customer DEMANDING we sell him a Golf R at cost, or he would take his business elsewhere. Made a big scene, and said because the site generated the quote, we were legally bound by it. Really? LOL. A) they are a third party, and we are bound by nothing. B) The car is sold out at every dealer in the country as they only built 500 of them. C) I have a waiting list of 30 people with deposits willing to pay full retail for the thing if anyone drops out.

[Mightyfire89]

^^^Jeez I hate car salesmen. You just confirmed why.

In any customer based business, Customers are how you exist. Pretty simple. You do anything other than satisfy your customers? You lose.

I pay cash for my cars and I don't put up with any BS. You give me the "I have to check with my boss (finance manager etc)" line? Guess what? You just lost a sale.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

^^^Jeez I hate car salesmen. You just confirmed why.

In any customer based business, Customers are how you exist. Pretty simple. You do anything other than satisfy your customers? You lose.

I pay cash for my cars and I don't put up with any BS. You give me the "I have to check with my boss (finance manager etc)" line? Guess what? You just lost a sale.

Customer satisfaction and price are not mutually exclusive. I could pull up a gazillion studies of our industry that show otherwise. And the difference nowadays between a good deal, and a great deal with the access to information on the internet is usually a couple hundred bucks. On a 30k purchase I am more than willing to spend a couple hundred dollars to deal with someone I trust.

Unfortunately, most dealers are set up that the sales guy has no choice to get permission from his boss to discount a car. If you let the sales guy have full reign over what he can discount a car, unfortunately, they would sell everything at minimum profit levels, and nobody would make anything. It has been tried in a lot of stores over the years, and it always fails at big dealers. Small volume it can work because the sales guys usually have to manage themselves to a degree, but in a giant modern day mega dealer the profit margins and competition is so tight you have to micro manage it. Customers end up getting great deals.... sure, but the dealerships are turning zero profit. And it still is a business has to shows return.

The government of Canada, makes more on the GST on the sale of a vehicle, than 90% of dealers do, there is such a small margin to mind now. In the business model you need someone to mind the big picture for the guy who fronted 25 million dollars to open a dealership. And a 22 year old kid, with zero business experience, and no access to the general ledger, can't be trusted with that decision. It is not smoke and mirrors all the time. Somehow it has been construed that profit is a dirty word in the car industry, and I have never understood that. Cars are not a right, they are a luxury. And as a guy with access to the general ledger, I have no idea why anyone would want to open a car dealership anymore. The return on investment is a joke nowadays.

I understand customers are how we exist, but just like there are good and bad businesses, there are good and bad customers too.

I haven't worked on the sales floor in 5 years, and I still sell half a dozen cars a month to people I have provided exceptional service to over the last 12 years. And they know they might be paying a little more for that service. But they still get a fair deal. If I was, I wouldn't be there to help them on the next one.

Personally, I am more than willing to pay a little more for good service. I get there are a lot of scabby dudes in car dealerships. But there are also some guys that have been around for a long, long time that treat their customers like gold, and never have to take a lead through the front door. They are 100% loyalty, and referral based. And contrary to what you may think, those are the guys that always have the best Gross profit numbers in the store. It is because they can be trusted, and because they provide exceptional service. Not because they blow everything out at cost.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by pylon

Customer satisfaction and price are not mutually exclusive. I could pull up a gazillion studies of our industry that show otherwise. And the difference nowadays between a good deal, and a great deal with the access to information on the internet is usually a couple hundred bucks. On a 30k purchase I am more than willing to spend a couple hundred dollars to deal with someone I trust.

Unfortunately, most dealers are set up that the sales guy has no choice to get permission from his boss to discount a car. If you let the sales guy have full reign over what he can discount a car, unfortunately, they would sell everything at minimum profit levels, and nobody would make anything. It has been tried in a lot of stores over the years, and it always fails at big dealers. Small volume it can work because the sales guys usually have to manage themselves to a degree, but in a giant modern day mega dealer the profit margins and competition is so tight you have to micro manage it. Customers end up getting great deals.... sure, but the dealerships are turning zero profit. And it still is a business has to shows return.

The government of Canada, makes more on the GST on the sale of a vehicle, than 90% of dealers do, there is such a small margin to mind now. In the business model you need someone to mind the big picture for the guy who fronted 25 million dollars to open a dealership. And a 22 year old kid, with zero business experience, and no access to the general ledger, can't be trusted with that decision. It is not smoke and mirrors all the time. Somehow it has been construed that profit is a dirty word in the car industry, and I have never understood that. Cars are not a right, they are a luxury. And as a guy with access to the general ledger, I have no idea why anyone would want to open a car dealership anymore. The return on investment is a joke nowadays.

I understand customers are how we exist, but just like there are good and bad businesses, there are good and bad customers too.

I haven't worked on the sales floor in 5 years, and I still sell half a dozen cars a month to people I have provided exceptional service to over the last 12 years. And they know they might be paying a little more for that service. But they still get a fair deal. If I was, I wouldn't be there to help them on the next one.

Personally, I am more than willing to pay a little more for good service. I get there are a lot of scabby dudes in car dealerships. But there are also some guys that have been around for a long, long time that treat their customers like gold, and never have to take a lead through the front door. They are 100% loyalty, and referral based. And contrary to what you may think, those are the guys that always have the best Gross profit numbers in the store. It is because they can be trusted, and because they provide exceptional service. Not because they blow everything out at cost.

Yeah, I get all that. Why is it that when I walk in to a car lot, I loathe the salesmen approaching me and slathering me with their greasy lines, trying to get me to buy their biggest loser cars on the lot? Frankly, it's insulting. I'm not that stupid. I love the attitude I get from them at that point too. Essentially it's " Buy this car at the price I quoted you or you get nothing".

Ok...Sheesh. Guess what? You get nothing. I understand that there are enough buffoons out there who will buy a car from you that you can make a living, but it ain't me babe.

There's a lot to be said for customer service.

As a business, what you give, you will get back, in spades.

It's that simple.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

Yeah, I get all that. Why is it that when I walk in to a car lot, I loathe the salesmen approaching me and slathering me with their greasy lines, trying to get me to buy their biggest loser cars on the lot? Frankly, it's insulting. I'm not that stupid. I love the attitude I get from them at that point too. Essentially it's " Buy this car at the price I quoted you or you get nothing".

Ok...Sheesh. Guess what? You get nothing. I understand that there are enough buffoons out there who will buy a car from you that you can make a living, but it ain't me babe.

There's a lot to be said for customer service.

As a business, what you give, you will get back, in spades.

It's that simple.

I can assure you, that you haven't been to our store. That is not how we operate. We are 100% satisfaction driven. And to be honest, it sounds like you are buying cars in some 1975 time warp.

But honestly, when I look at how you are talking down about everything about my profession, and everyone in it, do you not maybe think you might be coming across as an a-hole to the people at the dealership, hence the bad service? There is a saying I live and die by, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." And it goes both ways. Treat me like a sub-human a-hole, you will own your problems for all I care. Treat me with respect, I will run through a brick wall to help you get a deal, fix your problem, or call in a favour at a bank on a loan approval that normally would never happen. I am not going to burn my gimme's on a jerk that looks down on me, and doesn't appreciate it.

If I was treated like garbage by a customer when I was on the floor, I treated people the exact same way. There is no law saying I have to put up with people calling me a "slathering idiot with greasy lines." Some of us just want to make an honest living selling and servicing a product we love. I fell into it accidentally almost. I was a VW driver and fan, long before an employee. What was originally a go between job, turned into a 13 year, and counting career.

Anyway, once again, I came into a car related advice thread to try and give some helpful insider advice, and as per usual, someone decided to be insulting to me, and my career choice instead of take the advice at face value. This will be the last time I ever contribute anything auto related, as I don't need to be insulted and talked down to for trying to help. You guys are on your own.

It's that simple.

[Mightyfire89]

I can assure you that I always walk into a dealership looking to buy a car. If you treat me with a modicum of courtesy, you have my attention. I judge people on their ability to connect to me, not their ability as a "salesman". That's the biggest error salesmen make.

You want to sell cars? Be nice and don't bull#### people.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

I can assure you that I always walk into a dealership looking to buy a car. If you treat me with a modicum of courtesy, you have my attention. I judge people on their ability to connect to me, not their ability as a "salesman". That's the biggest error salesmen make.

You want to sell cars? Be nice and don't bull#### people.

Why are you trying to give me advice on how to interact with my customers? I never asked for your advice. Sr. Mints wanted to know if there was an advantage to paying cash or not. I answered, gave him a solution, and a reason why he should not disclose where he got his numbers. And then you proceeded to rant about how I am a crook, why you hate salesmen and how we are in a crooked industry?

I don't need your advice. My industry as a whole may, but I personally do not. And I never asked for it. I take pride i the fact I have never lied once to a customer. I perform my job at the top 5% of the industry performance standards, and I also maintain a nearly impossible customer satisfaction rating of 98.6% in one of the most conflict laden roles in the dealership, financing. When a bank will not approve a customer, and I have to go to a higher interest rate solution, who do you think they blame? The bank? I wish. Try politely breaking the news to a guy that the 1.9% rate is now 12.9% because he doesn't pay his bills on time.

You have some sort of comprehension issues, as you are repeating back to me pretty much everything I already written I do to treat my customers right. Anyone on this board who has dealt with me or my dealership has had a trouble free, full disclosure experience. And I do apologize to the ones where I couldn't help, or couldn't respond in time, as I have had some personal things in the last few months that have admittedly, hurt my performance.

Like I said, people like you, is why I will no longer give advice. Especially when I am volunteering it, out of respect the members on this site, without any sort of solicitation for business. Which in reality a true sharpshooter would actually do.

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by pylon

Car dealers don't want you to pay cash, big myth. We make money on the financing through an interest rate reserve, and it opens up products on the loan not available on a cash sale. Specifically life and disability insurance, also it makes the sale of add-ons much easier because they now become a monthly instalment, not an upfront cost. In fact many dealers will give you a BETTER deal knowing you will finance, as they can bank on some back end profit. You usually see a financed customer again, and they are easier to retain, I believe the re-visit rate is something like 70%. Where as 80% of cash customers you never see again, so unless you are trying to unload overstocks or distressed inventory, you may be better to just let them walk.

Do dealerships have any clawback clauses with dealer plan reserves? Like if the loan is paid out at 90 days -- No reserve is paid to the dealership?