[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[5abi]

Yah it’s not a bad trade, took me a few hours but it’s not a bad trade.

[SemicolonD]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am unconvinced that Andersson had more trade value last season than this season. I don't think he played well enough last year to get the kind of return he got now. If anything, I think the gamble Conroy took on Andersson rebounding in a contract year paid off.

There’s no way to know for sure either way, and yes Anderson has played lights out this year. But there’s 100% value to 2 playoff runs vs pure rental, and the bidding war he would’ve had being the #1 D target. Carlo trade is always quoted as an easy example too.

#2 we most likely don’t have to trade him to Vegas in this scenario, so we don’t lower the value of our Vegas pick this year.

#3 even if you think this was intentionally a great gamble by Conroy (it wasn’t, we were in a playoff push so he kept him, would’ve dealt him otherwise), do you think this is a strategy they should follow with older vets like Coleman or Kadri? Those 2 are much less likely to have a great year like Anderson has as they continue aging.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

With Treliving and Sutter the Flames were never going to rebuild in 2023. Brad told owners he would build a winner and Sutter would never have agreed to a rebuilding team. Meant a missed opportunity with Tkachuk but it is what it is.

Conroy came in and presented his plan to rebuild and ownership signed off on it. Might be fair to criticize not trading some guys last year but I think he just felt he had to give them a chance since they were so close to making the playoffs. Fact that he did next to nothing trying to improve outside the Frost/Farabee trade (and I suspect he will end up netting out more picks than he gave up in that trade) tells me that at best his plan was delayed a year. But he has consistently implemented his plan and I think any reasonable person knows it will take time.

See what Conroy does the rest of this year but I suspect at the end of the day he ends up moving 2 more assets out for picks and prospects and moves even more next year.

I've voiced my frustration...and agree, it's in the past, so nothing to do about it.

Also agree that he moves more assets this year and next. That gives us lots of cards. The missing pieces are top flight talent, but that likely comes the next few seasons as we're real bad.

At the moment the only difference I'd have in my own thinking from the team is probably timing. I'd rather do it all now, and ok to take picks in the future even. They'll do it slower. Whatever.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Very optimistic, bordering on naive, but i like it.

What do you think he is worth?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/whit...to-join-flames

Sound like he is not aware we are trying to tank here……

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

How do you know where Vegas will finish next season?

I think we can reasonably project. It's Vegas. They get all the players and never suck. Stone, Pacioretty, Eichel, Pietrangelo, Hanifin, Andersson....

You said the Hanifin return was a good return because the 2026 pick was unprotected and Vegas could fall off a cliff this year. Where is Vegas in the standings?

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That’s my thoughts, Conroy screwed up royally here by not trading Rasmus at the deadline last year.

Hard to trade a guy playing on a broken leg. If anything, should have been done in 2024 when everyone else was bailing.

I’m as unhappy as others on the board but it’s done and boom all we can do about it. Now get to work with Coleman!

[Mass_nerder]

The value is fine for a rental.
It's just frustrating that Vegas gets to pay the rental price for a player that is as good as extended.
Bring back conditions on players re-signing with the new team.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Whitecloud isn't a junker throw in. He's a good defensive top 4 dman that I think will be able to return a 1st

I don't think CC has any intention on trading Whitecloud this season. This is a player he really likes.

[Jason14h]

Minten wasn’t as highly regarded last year so it’s a bit unfair to say a top prospect when at the time he was an above average prospect , and you can’t use Toronto’s current draft position this year in hindsight to evaluate the trade

The firsts are a wash in those trades .

So it’s Minten and a 4th vs a 2nd (most likely ) , Whitecloud and Wiebe (sp)

Pretty close to value IMO when you break it down

I think the biggest issue if instead of a bigger name spect to get excited about we get a 2nd and a 29 year old middle pairing D . It is less exciting and I understand the disappointment - but I’m not convinced the value was less then the Carlo trade

[Dion]

After listening to Conroy he seems to like Whitecloud a lot. Stanley Cup winner and great penalty killer. Sees him logging big minutes with the Flames.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Sound like he is not aware we are trying to tank here……

Feel bad for the guy. He’s excited and seems like a good dude but most fans aren’t judging by the reaction. Was hoping for a quick flip personally. Hopefully won’t be too long and we can get a good return.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

I've voiced my frustration...and agree, it's in the past, so nothing to do about it.

Also agree that he moves more assets this year and next. That gives us lots of cards. The missing pieces are top flight talent, but that likely comes the next few seasons as we're real bad.

At the moment the only difference I'd have in my own thinking from the team is probably timing. I'd rather do it all now, and ok to take picks in the future even. They'll do it slower. Whatever.

My guess is (maybe hope) but is that Conroy

1) trades Coleman and one of the vet dmen this year for more picks and prospects.

2) works with Kadri in the offseason to move him for more picks and propsects

3) maybe uses some of the picks and prospects for a 24-25 year old center who is either under contract or has team control with 2nd/3rd line capabilities to fill the gap left by Kadri

4) trades another dman and one of Frost or Farabee for more picks and prospects next year.

Either way I don’t think the guy is done yet this season.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

The value is fine for a rental.
It's just frustrating that Vegas gets to pay the rental price for a player that is as good as extended.
Bring back conditions on players re-signing with the new team.

Why would Vegas bother paying extra on the condition of re-signing, when they know perfectly well that all the other offers are based on a pure rental? They didn't need to bid against themselves, even if it were allowed.

[traptor]

After thinking about it, my initial reaction was too strong.

I dont think its an ideal return, but its in the fair range, albeit it on the lower end.


A late 1st clearly being the primary asset isn't great, it being vgk isnt great, bending on everything like retention and pick conditions isnt great, but its still a 1st + 2nd + asset.


How they handle Whitecloud will really define this trade. If they somehow got a 2nd for Whitecloud it could be a better trade.




Right now its an okay trade, not good or great, which isn't what you hope for with a piece like Rasmus.


Overall Underwhelming

[dino7c]

I won a bet with a guy who didnt think he wouldnt get a first even...there was a guy on here that recently said the same.

Then we have the usual suspects who think this deal is a fireable offence...such crazy swings

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I think we can reasonably project. It's Vegas. They get all the players and never suck. Stone, Pacioretty, Eichel, Pietrangelo, Hanifin, Andersson....

You said the Hanifin return was a good return because the 2026 pick was unprotected and Vegas could fall off a cliff this year. Where is Vegas in the standings?

The last two seasons they have picked 19th and 26th. Saying it will be in the low 20’s (20-24) seems accurate.

[calgarygringo]

With Raz stats last year we would have got a bag of pucks at Best.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't think CC has any intention on trading Whitecloud this season. This is a player he really likes.

As long as additional subtractions are made, keep the shiny new toy.

Trade weegs to Ottawa (or wherever) if you are keeping whitecloud. And if this deal sees us get a call for weegs, then it’s looking a bit better.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Whitecloud is an asset.

Not all assets have to be part of the rebuild - they can also be used to acquire... other assets

He’s probably filling Hanley’s role in a year and he’s better than Hanley.

I just hope they keep giving ice time to Kuznetsov, Brzustewicz and Pachal. Maybe Parekh as well once he’s done his Wranglers stint.