The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I honestly don't.

I can't think of a player as slow as Tkachuk who has ever scored 50 goals. Certainly not in the last 30 years.

As a Flames fan, you can find one by putting together two sore spots

Dave Andreychuk scored 53 with Toronto in 1993-94 by parking himself in front of the net while Gilmour was playing out of this world hockey.

[CalgaryFan1988]

In today's NHL with speed being more important than ever, it's hard to argue that it isn't Tkachuk's biggest weakness.

I don't really care how he fares next to Dave Andreychuk or his dad, this isn't 1990.

I think it's fair to point out his skating as a weakness, when he's being compared to Aho, Nylander, etc... in terms of salary structure.

That being said, he still seems to produce despite his skating ability. I do wonder how long this will affect his shelf-life though.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I just went and watched 20-odd minutes of AC's Tkachuk highlight reel, to see if I wasn't out to lunch on Tkachuk's foot speed.

At no point *in his own highlight reel* was Tkachuk ever the fastest player in the frame. The bulk of his plays were from a complete standstill. And there were several examples, again *in his own highlight reel* where his acceleration and/or footspeed is embarrassingly bad for an NHLer.

The only revision I want to make to my previous statement, is that I'm no longer sure that he's faster than Lucic.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

In today's NHL with speed being more important than ever, it's hard to argue that it isn't Tkachuk's biggest weakness.

I don't really care how he fares next to Dave Andreychuk or his dad, this isn't 1990.

I think it's fair to point out his skating as a weakness, when he's being compared to Aho, Nylander, etc... in terms of salary structure.

That being said, he still seems to produce despite his skating ability. I do wonder how long this will affect his shelf-life though.

It's a bit of a double-edge sword. Any drop in his already poor speed might be a big problem. But on the other hand, he does most of his damage while standing still in the offensive zone.

[Scroopy Noopers]

We can love the guy and admit he’s the slowest guy on the team.

But he definitely makes up for it cerebrally.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

We can love the guy and admit he’s the slowest guy on the team.

But he definitely makes up for it cerebrally.

I would also add that he does have incredible edgework and agility.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, and once again I will refer to Jagr noting how many players can get to the wrong place faster than him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Great post.

It illustrates the time lag between drafting and organizational depth, and the core cycles a team runs through. Drafting a couple of star players can hold you in contention for 10 years, as was the case with Couture and Pavelski, and Marleau and Vlasic before that.

I think it also illustrates how a single player can impact both a draft and a team. Tkachuk IMO is a superstar player, and his 174 career points represent more than half of the total point output from those draft years. Where would this team be without him, even with max potential for valimaki, andersson etc?

I will add though that this doesn't include the prospects shipped out for Karlsson and Hoffman. While they may not have played a game, they were integral organizational assets.

Kind of like the picks that were shipped out to acquire Hamonic or Hamilton, which resulted in Lindholm and Hanifin?

When SJ trades picks for assets it's a good thing? (as opposed to your view on the Flames doing it?)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Kind of like the picks that were shipped out to acquire Hamonic or Hamilton, which resulted in Lindholm and Hanifin?

When SJ trades picks for assets it's a good thing? (as opposed to your view on the Flames doing it?)

Yeah, it strikes me that trading a pick is not a whole lot different than trading a guy you just picked. I notice he left out the Kane deal, in which SJ traded... wait for it ... picks (and a prospect) for a rental (and upped the pick to a first rounder by signing Kane).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Kind of like the picks that were shipped out to acquire Hamonic or Hamilton, which resulted in Lindholm and Hanifin?

When SJ trades picks for assets it's a good thing? (as opposed to your view on the Flames doing it?)

No, they picked players with those picks and those players had higher value than the picks would've themselves.

Rudolf Balcers has more value than a 5th round pick.

Chris Tierney had more value than a 2nd round pick.

Dylan DeMelo had more value than a 6th round pick.

From where the team was at and what they needed, the Lindholm/Hamilton trade is a home run for Calgary but it was Adam Fox, the extremely valuable prospect, that put that deal over the top.

Adam Fox had more value than a pick from the round he was drafted in.

Also, as has been explained to you numerous times by now, I have no problem with the Flames trading picks and for the last year have explicitly endorsed trading a LOT of high value picks to round out the competitive window.

What I don't think is an effective strategy is trading a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round pick in a 2 year period for 3 players no longer with the organization, one of whom carries a substantial buyout penalty.

I'd much rather trade for Erik Karlsson than Curtis Lazar.

[Enoch Root]

You're cherry picking.

Trading prospects vs trading picks can go either way - some become more valuable, some less. Mangiapane, Dube, Andersson, Kylington and Fox are all worth more than their original pick-slot. But others see their value drop.

In the end, in an efficient market, those things should balance out - there should be no ongoing arbitrage between the value of picks vs prospects. Otherwise, it would get exploited and priced out. Whether this team or that team is better at evaluating assets, is of course a different discussion. But one strategy should not have an inherent value over the other.

And we're all impressed that you would rather trade for Karlsson than Lazar.

[Flash Walken]

Why do I even bother.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're cherry picking.

Trading prospects vs trading picks can go either way - some become more valuable, some less. Mangiapane, Dube, Andersson, Kylington and Fox are all worth more than their original pick-slot. But others see their value drop.

In the end, in an efficient market, those things should balance out - there should be no ongoing arbitrage between the value of picks vs prospects. Otherwise, it would get exploited and priced out. Whether this team or that team is better at evaluating assets, is of course a different discussion. But one strategy should not have an inherent value over the other.

And we're all impressed that you would rather trade for Karlsson than Lazar.

The Karlsson trade also included picks as well as players. FWIW.

Really, almost any GM has traded picks or players. Its as if teams are at different points in their cycles of competitiveness. SJ spent picks and prospects because they thought they had a shot. So does Treliving apparently. I may be misremembering but I don't recall hearing Flash cheer Treliving on when he traded Hudler, Glencross and Baerstchi for picks.

[sureLoss]

From LeBrun's latest article with updates on all the unsigned RFAs (nothing earth shattering):

https://theathletic.com/1181513/2019...urce=twittered

Again, the issue here is term. I think the Tkachuk camp led by Newport Sports would prefer five years while the Flames want to avoid that. I think there’s been talk of shorter-term scenarios and also longer-term but again like most teams, avoiding five years where the players go straight to UFA is what this is about for the Flames.

And I’m not sure a whole lot has changed since the June draft when both sides met.

[SportsJunky]

Sounds like term is the big issue for almost every major RFA according to LeBrun.

[Heavy Jack]

Thanks so much Dubas you dumbass! Ughhh, so annoying that he only got 5 years for Mathews when he gave that much AAV and now here is where we sit.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Thanks so much Dubas you dumbass! Ughhh, so annoying that he only got 5 years for Mathews when he gave that much AAV and now here is where we sit.

I can only assume the plan is to try and win a cup in a four year window and trade him around year five?

[Toonage]

Screw it. Give him 5. Sure, he walks (probably). But who will still be here then? Probably be rebuilding anyway.

Also the new building will be done then. That will bring in the fans while the team rebuilds.

[Vinny01]

Treliving will get 6 years. He loves that term for his big extensions.

Gaudreau, Hamilton, Lindholm, Hanifin for RFA’s

Giordano, Backlund for UFA.

He did go 7 years with Monahan and 5 years with Brodie

[bax]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Screw it. Give him 5. Sure, he walks (probably). But who will still be here then? Probably be rebuilding anyway.

Also the new building will be done then. That will bring in the fans while the team rebuilds.

Doesn't mean he will walk, but certainly sets himself up nicely to get paid big time using UFA status as leverage.