Star Trek General Discussion

[craigwd]

No, it's intact and referenced a lot in Enterprise season 4 with the Augments arc.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So to re-iterate.

Elnor, Raffi, Rios and Jurati for Saru, chair, shock guest, dude who no longer has a story, and Culber, coffee table , and part time in it for the paycheck person.

Discovery has done such an awful job of character development that I literally have forgotten most of them.

Saru - Really has nothing to do and this romance angle seems to be utterly forced.
Detmer - I'll give credit that they're trying with her. But really they ramped her through instant forgiveness for Michael wrecking her life. To recovering from PTSD in two seconds, to looking dumb with Georgio, to now the Han Solo of the crew.
Kovich - Fine, he's cool
Stamets - Does he really have a story anymore, besides screaming Scottyisms and . . . .
Culber - They're working hard on developing him. After him spending last year just being an annoying doctor.
Linus - I had to look him up, thus the chair. He's like android lady who nobody cared about when she turned rogue and died and then came back as a nice table.
Reno - I don't understand the point of her, I think its a running joke that she's friends with someone, shows up and does some deadpan lines and runs out the door with a pile of cash screaming "Start the Car".

That’s why I would get then off Discovery and onto Picard. Their storylines on Discovery are pale, but I still find them more likeable than the new guys on Picard. They feel closer to TNG characters than the new guys. Even the minor characters like Linus, Reno, Kovich that you seldom see have more of a TNG aura.

[Fuzz]

Not specific to Picard, but alternate timeline episodes where characters are opposites of themselves make so little sense. Maybe if they were really young, you might come out different. But then to have Picard a General AND 7 the President is a lot to swallow. That, and given the brutality of this future, to have everyone still alive would even be a surprise. So I typically don't like these types of episodes, but they did manage a compelling story on this episode.

I suspect this entire season is going to be Q playing games, and it might get tiresome, but so far this season has been way better than Discovery.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by craigwd

No, it's intact and referenced a lot in Enterprise season 4 with the Augments arc.

So still 1990s?

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So still 1990s?

Yes, where they were overthrown.
Then some of the embryos were put in cold storage which were then stolen by Arik Soong in the mid 22nd century.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Episode started off a little weak but got better as time went on.

The intereactoin with the Queen was pretty cool. Clearly she recognizes 7 and what happened to her in the original timeline. But then she refers to someone as a fragile tea cup and then looks at Jurati and says "YOU, you are accumstomed to this feeling anywhere". What was that about do you think?

[Blaster86]

Star Trek: Picard episode 2 of season 2 was good. I enjoyed Star Trek: Picard episode 2 of season 2.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Episode started off a little weak but got better as time went on.

The intereactoin with the Queen was pretty cool. Clearly she recognizes 7 and what happened to her in the original timeline. But then she refers to someone as a fragile tea cup and then looks at Jurati and says "YOU, you are accumstomed to this feeling anywhere". What was that about do you think?

I thought maybe it was intended to be humour. The Borg Queen throwing shade on Jurati being an awkward and out-of-place person in every timeline.

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

With the Star Trek Picard story line, its definately an alternative time line and not a mirror universe.



But the mirror universe empire literally goes back to the Eugenics Wars and Khan and the other Ubermen. Who had placed in humanity a overwhelming survivor instinct, which lead to a aggessive human first empire seeding the galaxy.

Yes, I know it is a different timeline versus a mirror universe, but the result was the same. Everyone gets to play an over-the-top evil version of themselves. Even Q said, "Into a Mirror Darkly." It can make for a fun episode, like when sitcoms do musicals or some guy's cousin is just him with a wig on, but it makes no sense. From a Butterfly Effect point of view, if history was drastically altered 400 years ago, you would not exist. Your parents would not have met, names would be different, everything would be different. It's fun, but Star Trek requires a level 8 suspension of disbelief.

On the plus side, my wife never watched TNG, but agreed to watch "All Good Things.." with me this weekend so she has context for Picard.

Spoiler!

I'm very curious about the Q might be sick plot line.

[Shazam]

It's a Q generated timeline, so he can do what he see fits.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Yes, I know it is a different timeline versus a mirror universe, but the result was the same. Everyone gets to play an over-the-top evil version of themselves. Even Q said, "Into a Mirror Darkly." It can make for a fun episode, like when sitcoms do musicals or some guy's cousin is just him with a wig on, but it makes no sense. From a Butterfly Effect point of view, if history was drastically altered 400 years ago, you would not exist. Your parents would not have met, names would be different, everything would be different. It's fun, but Star Trek requires a level 8 suspension of disbelief.

On the plus side, my wife never watched TNG, but agreed to watch "All Good Things.." with me this weekend so she has context for Picard.

Spoiler!

I'm very curious about the Q might be sick plot line.

I guess my concern is that Mirror Universe episodes (which, again, this is not) were okay, but they werent my favourite. And they did disavow that notion rather quickly indicating that this was their timeline but altered by one major event.

Now...thats gonna have to be one doozie of a 'Major Event.'

To turn Picard into a Xenophobic and despotic and bloodthirsty lunatic.

Again, wholeheartedly agree on 'Level 8 Suspension of Disbelief' and I'm on board with that, I'm a Star Trek fan and I get that this comes with the territory.

But bastardizing a Mirror Universe concept and stretching over the course of an entire season might be a bit of a big ask.

[Wormius]

What would be amusing is if the events of The Voyage Home played a role in this, like, what happened to these whales and the marine biologist who suddenly went missing or the fishing crew that saw this Klingon Bird of Prey uncloak had farther reaching affects than previously thought. Conspiracy theories into aliens stealing Earth’s whales abound and cause this branch of the timeline. Or a lesson from Q about the unintended consequences of time travel.

I liked the last episode of Discovery too, although all of the characters seemingly gained Deus Ex abilities, which was annoying and shoehorning in some of the lesser involved crew to that brainstorming session was awkward.

[Monahammer]

I have questions.

Did it seem to anyone that Q maybe was implying that the universe that he has put them in was actually the real universe? or is in some sense? And that everything he has ever done to Picard is precisely because he is space Hitler in the "actual" reality? Because that's what I took from the conversation where Q slapped him. The "trial" therefor was whether space hitler could be good under other circumstances?

Not sure I like Adolf Picard being a thing. Haven't talked to my Dad about it but I can't see him loving that either. Picard is the paragon of diplomacy and virtue.

I did not think this was a bad episode, though I think the pacing of them finding all eachother was very rushed- I know it's asking a lot, but I can only suspend my disbelief so much when talking about space ships and alternate universes and time travel etc. Having to suspend it further to believe that raffi could stumble upon elnor about to get shot for e.g. just seems like a stretch; one that is totally unnecessary too, they could have just plotted in some off camera time or maybe have them just straight up "wake up" together if the outcome was going to be immediately reuniting in large part.

All in all still going to watch where it's going but my unease has returned about the plot direction.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I have questions.

Did it seem to anyone that Q maybe was implying that the universe that he has put them in was actually the real universe? or is in some sense? And that everything he has ever done to Picard is precisely because he is space Hitler in the "actual" reality? Because that's what I took from the conversation where Q slapped him. The "trial" therefor was whether space hitler could be good under other circumstances?

Not sure I like Adolf Picard being a thing. Haven't talked to my Dad about it but I can't see him loving that either. Picard is the paragon of diplomacy and virtue.

I did not think this was a bad episode, though I think the pacing of them finding all eachother was very rushed- I know it's asking a lot, but I can only suspend my disbelief so much when talking about space ships and alternate universes and time travel etc. Having to suspend it further to believe that raffi could stumble upon elnor about to get shot for e.g. just seems like a stretch.

All in all still going to watch where it's going but my unease has returned about the plot direction.

My understanding of it was that Q changed 1 important thing in the past.

And that mystical, magical, mysterious 1 thing is the thing that led Picard down the path of tyranny instead of diplomacy to become Darth Picard.

Now...I get where you're at with the suspension of disbelief, but they are leveraging a lot of this story on the importance of that one thing. For all we know of Picard it seems unlikely that there would be a single event that could precipitate a hard 'jackbooted heel-turn.'

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Locke

My understanding of it was that Q changed 1 important thing in the past.

And that mystical, magical, mysterious 1 thing is the thing that led Picard down the path of tyranny instead of diplomacy to become Darth Picard.

Now...I get where you're at with the suspension of disbelief, but they are leveraging a lot of this story on the importance of that one thing. For all we know of Picard it seems unlikely that there would be a single event that could precipitate a hard 'jackbooted heel-turn.'

I get that's what Picard seems to think happened and tells the "crew" such. But, Q's dialog to Picard when they're together doesn't seem to fit that. He implies that Picard very much is this monster! Not that he deviously changed something, rather that Picard's done this himself and he's actually trying to give him one more chance not to #### reality. It's like an inverse/re do of the plot of "all good things" where Q has put Picard in a position where his very actions jeopardize reality. Except this time Q implies that Picard did it.

Your secondary point belies this: How could one change turn Picard from the foremost diplomat of his era to space hitler? And society being cool with that in general? It's just... weird. E.g. If i had to guess, the "change" would be something to do with Picard's mom, but why would a change to his mom's relationship change the way humanity in general dealt with other species on a galactic scale?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I get that's what Picard seems to think happened and tells the "crew" such. But, Q's dialog to Picard when they're together doesn't seem to fit that. He implies that Picard very much is this monster! Not that he deviously changed something, rather that Picard's done this himself and he's actually trying to give him one more chance not to #### reality. It's like an inverse/re do of the plot of "all good things" where Q has put Picard in a position where his very actions jeopardize reality. Except this time Q implies that Picard did it.

Your secondary point belies this: How could one change turn Picard from the foremost diplomat of his era to space hitler? And society being cool with that in general? It's just... weird. E.g. If i had to guess, the "change" would be something to do with Picard's mom, but why would a change to his mom's relationship change the way humanity in general dealt with other species on a galactic scale?

Oh its totally his mom.

Which I cannot imagine not being an eye-rolling moment of such epic proportions that they shall just eject from their sockets whilst envisioning Kurtzman over a typewriter giggling like a schoolgirl over how clever he thinks he is.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh its totally his mom.

Which I cannot imagine not being an eye-rolling moment of such epic proportions that they shall just eject from their sockets whilst envisioning Kurtzman over a typewriter giggling like a schoolgirl over how clever he thinks he is.

[Monahammer]

Also, I will never forgive them for boiling Martok's skull!

Dukat, well deserved.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is the thing, and the main reason I was skeptical about that episode.

It was good in its own way, a little clunky and unbelievable but hey, its Star Trek, thats fine to a degree.

Its the likely premise that its setting up that you can kind of see coming from miles away that is concerning.

What is this event? Because its looking like Picard's mom, whom we've never heard of and basically has never been discussed, spanked him one day, presumably through some skullduggery of Q's, and the Picard we know changed that day and became Darth Picard.....

Because if its that....imma be pissed.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is the thing, and the main reason I was skeptical about that episode.

It was good in its own way, a little clunky and unbelievable but hey, its Star Trek, thats fine to a degree.

Its the likely premise that its setting up that you can kind of see coming from miles away that is concerning.

What is this event? Because its looking like Picard's mom, whom we've never heard of and basically has never been discussed, spanked him one day, presumably through some skullduggery of Q's, and the Picard we know changed that day and became Darth Picard.....

Because if its that....imma be pissed.

The change happened in 2024, and Picard was born in 2305. I don't see how the change would affect his mom directly being that she wouldn't even be born yet