[Trade] Flames acquire Mike Smith (25% retained) for Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey, & cond 3rd

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

His point still stands. He's never been nominated for the Vezina.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Cheap flames. Management believes they can just go on bargain hunting and dumpster diving until they become a contender. Bollig. Colbourne. Johnson. Smith. Brouwer. Etc etc

Cant believe how many deluded, overly optimistic homer fans have a crush on treliving the 'wizard' who signed gio for a decade, gave brouwer basically 5 million. Signed hiller johnson and elliott. 2 of 3 are castaway last chance saloon goalies. Johnson had 1 half decent year in buffalo as a backup who came in due to injury.

The amount of times this ownership and management group has sold the fans snake oil is incredible. At the ebd of every season we are 1 or 2 pieces away. Every summer those 1 or 2 pieces are terrible additions. We are always stretching to sign some loser who isnt wanted by 95% of the league.

How ####ing hard is it to acquire youngish pre-apex players. Versteeg Brouwer Elliott was our attempt at solving our problems last off season.

We are off to a good start now shipping out a top ncaa d man for a 60 year old below average goalie on a big contract. We just love a project player. The underdog.


#### it lets re-rebuild. Unless you really think this team can build a contender with half of our cap space committed to useless 30 something year old bums who have never won anything in their lives.

The problem here is the market. We as fans want a good team every year. We go through goalies coaches gms defencemen forwards etc like nothing else. We are opposed to silently sucking for 3 or 4 years and collecting assets.

Id rather finish last for 5 years and have a good team than finish 14th for the next decade and watch a group of b list nhlers pretending to earn their huge salaries.

If were going to suck...lets suck. Lets be a cap floor team with top 5 picks.

We suck...but we are almost at the cap for the next 5 years. Ironically this management group has no intellectual honesty. Putting a cheap low quality product on the ice and billing the team as a playoff contender.

The worst part about it is the homers with the rose tinted glasses. Oh but at least we have johnny. Oh remember how cheap we got Hamilton? Monahan is toews. Parsons will be our goalie of the future. Backlund > crosby because advanced stats. The coaching staff is awesome. Trust me brouwer will be great for us, hes huge, strong and scores goals. Elliott is actually the best goalie in the league in the past 5 years during the regular season according to these random stats!

Theyve already started putting their stupid spin on things...smith is just holding the fort for 2 years untill our 5 goalie prospects are ready. Earned not given. Hickey wouldnt have signed.

The problem is the market. Great passionate fans can be a blessing and a curse. A blessing becauae they support the team really well no matter what. A curse because they can be tricked by management every season into thinking this is the season they sneak in as an 8 seed and win the stanley cup with giordano brouwer and elliott/smith.

Look at most of the good teams in the league. They quietly sucked for about a decade. Hawks. Pens. Blues. Caps. Etc etc. Canadian markets ruin hockey teams. Every year is our year. Every coach has to be fired. Every young player is a bust who needs to be traded. There is no patience. No long term goal. Just a short term goal of selling season tickets and merch, varely making the playoffs and being swept in the first or second round by a much better team. RINSE. REPEAT.

yaaay. GO FLAMES GO.

Early candidate for worst post of the year. Missed it initially, wow.

What you're looking at right now is the result of a rebuild that started with Iggy getting traded. The core of this team is young and good, with Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Ferland, Backlund, Frolik, Brodie and Hamilton anchoring the team for the long term. When Stajan, Engelland and Wideman leave this season, at 33, 34 and 35, the flames will be one of the youngest teams in the league.

They're a young playoff team right now with a really bright future and yes really good goaltending prospects, which you seem to think is a bad thing. Your criticism is that they didn't suck for 10 years and completely fluke out by being gifted generational players in the draft like some of the other teams you mentioned? And that's what they should now do until they hopefully luck out and win the next generational player?

I hope your post was tongue in cheek and if it was I'm sorry for missing that entirely. I really hope it was for your sake.

[Demetric]

I thinkntgis deal was more to make sure we had a #1 for next season as too much unknown with the drafts coming. Did not want to loose out on getting someone again

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[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Depends whether you believe goalies at age 35 can still be at the top of their game. I happen to believe goalies in excellent shape can often still play at a high level at that age. There's lots of historical data that shows it's possible

So then show that historical data as a means to illustrate a formerly top nhl is likely to be effective at 35+ rather than illustrating it with his potential to be nominated for an award 6 years ago.

No one cares what a player did 6 years ago.

[kukkudo]

If Smith bombs the upcoming season, does Treliving get fired? Burke? Or GG?

When I say bombs I mean miss the playoffs.

[Southside]

Will they be as patient this season if goaltending becomes an issue again? I doubt it. I imagine all of our prospects would get a shot and there might be a trade too.

[StrykerSteve]

edit - nvm beaten

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If Smith bombs the upcoming season, does Treliving get fired? Burke? Or GG?

When I say bombs I mean miss the playoffs.

According to a lot of people here that will be a good thing because we will only have to give up a third rounder.

Smith may be old but he is the first guy we've had since kipper that is truly a full time starting goalie In the nhl. It's for two years at a decent cap hit, and gives us stability for that period. All the second round picks in the world aren't worth crap if we don't have a guy that can be consistent in net every night. He doesn't need to be spectacular, he needs to be solid and I believe that Smith can do that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If Smith bombs the upcoming season, does Treliving get fired? Burke? Or GG?

When I say bombs I mean miss the playoffs.

I highly doubt it.

You can't get blood from a stone. Pretty much every goalie I can think of that is proven and in their prime is spoken for.

You literally can't name a single goalie rumored to be available that doesn't come with just as many questions marks or cons as Mike Smith.

[Demetric]

I am am only at 60/40 That we are done acquiring goalies. I see a deal with Vegas that will include one of our prospects (please be McDonald) for a good young backup as a fail safe. Vegas will need goalies in the system that can be sent down without waivers.

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[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Chingas

Smith may be old but he is the first guy we've had since kipper that is truly a full time starting goalie In the nhl.

Disagree.

Jonas Hiller was a full-time starter before he came to the Flames. In the three years preceding his coming here, he played a total of 167 games (including the 2013 lockout year total pro-rated to an 82 game season.)

In the three years preceding Smith coming here, he played a total of 149 games.

[Roof-Daddy]

Adding Pickard as a back up wouldn't hurt my feelings right now.

I feel like he didn't get a fair shake being thrust unexpectedly into the starters role behind a historically bad team. I woudl say he showed at the World's he's still a very good young goalie when not hung out to dry.

[AltaGuy]

I hate it. Don't think Smith is very good anymore, and I believe Elliot is a better goalie. But, maybe one of the prospects will turn into an NHL starter.

And now Sigalet gets his hands on Smith too. This is going to be ugly. Hope I'm wrong!

[ToraToraTora]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Disagree.

Jonas Hiller was a full-time starter before he came to the Flames. In the three years preceding his coming here, he played a total of 167 games (including the 2013 lockout year total pro-rated to an 82 game season.)

In the three years preceding Smith coming here, he played a total of 149 games.

Wasn't Smith also injured for like a season?

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[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I'm warming up to Mike Smith. If we could swing a deal for him, with Brouwer headed the other way, that'd be fantastic.

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I would go with 1 of Fleury or Smith if I could vote again. Probably Smith, as I think we could shoe-horn 1 of Bouma/Stajan/Brouwer in the deal.

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Mike Smith just makes too much sense, unless you believe that there is a long-term, sure thing solution available (Schneider), and that Treliving would be willing to pay the assets to acquire that goaltender. It's possible that Raanta or Grubauer are ready to be starting goaltenders, but I don't believe Treliving would be willing to gamble next season on either of them taking that next step.

Happy with the trade, overall, I just wish we would have sent salary back. Though, if that were the case, the Yotes wouldn't have retained salary on Smith and so it sort of evens out.

Hopefully Vegas takes 1 of Brouwer or Bouma.

Damn you, Hickey.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Par

This is the best they could get GTFO

We don't have the available assets to Get The First Overall.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If Smith bombs the upcoming season, does Treliving get fired? Burke? Or GG?

When I say bombs I mean miss the playoffs.

You realize that us making the playoffs last season was basically a miracle right?

Our goaltending was so bad that we were dead in the water. That winning streak is pretty much the only reason we made it.

We are, at the moment, far from a 'lock' for the playoffs.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Locke

You realize that us making the playoffs last season was basically a miracle right?

Our goaltending was so bad that we were dead in the water. That winning streak is pretty much the only reason we made it.

We are, at the moment, far from a 'lock' for the playoffs.

I wouldn't go as far as calling us a "lock" but I'd be pretty shocked if the Flames don't make the playoffs next season.

Gaudreau misses training camp, as does Monahan.
Monahan and Backlund nursing nagging injuries to start the season.
Huge change in coaching system.
TERRIBLE goaltending.
No decent fit for a #4 Dman.

A lot of things had to go wrong for the Flames to start the season that badly. I doubt anything close to that happens again to start next season, and if it they don't start 5-10-1 they are more likely to push for a division title than they are to miss the playoffs IMO.

[Toonage]

Flames don't have Grossmann this year. Impossible to not get off to a better start.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You completely missed my point. You have listed the number of goalies that played 45 games and got league average save percentage. Great. The question is: how man played 45 games and had worse than league average save percentage?

That's a weird question to ask because 35+ goalies that aren't getting the job done aren't going to get to play over 45 games. They get pushed into retirement.

There are 27 goalies that played games at 35. 10 of them met the criteria I set out.

There were 24 goalies that played games at 36. 6 of them met the criteria.

Now, if you can show that 35 year old goalies that play at least 45 games have a lower save percentage, on average, than goalies under 35 that played 45 games, that would be a useful stat.

At age 28:
16 out of 26 that meet the criteria.

age 29:
23 out of 27.

Age 30:
15 out of 22.

Age 31:
12 out of 25.




It should be noted that of the goalies that even played any games at age 35 or over, about half of them had finished top 5 in Vezina voting at some point in their careers, so generally the over 35 club is almost exclusively above average goalies.

Despite the over 35 club being made up of a much higher percentage of formerly good goaltenders, only 3 guys had seasons over the age of 35 where they finished top 5 in Vezina voting. Luongo, Brodeur, and Thomas.

Compare that to the group of 28 year old goalies that played 45+ games. Of the group of 26, 6 of them finished top 5 in Vezina voting in that season.

Goalies just generally perform worse at ages 35/36 than they did at younger ages.