*SPOILER DISCUSSION* Star Wars The Force Awakens *POST HERE AFTER SEEING THE MOVIE*

[Fuzz]

...Or Lucas said "screw it" and wrote her death. Trying to justify a major plot hole by trying to find some way of making it work is silly. Lucas wrote that originally because he had no idea what he was going to do in the prequels, and at the time, it was decent dialog between her and look as they talked about family and worked toward the reveal. Now it stands as a glaringly obvious oversight.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_of_Alderaan
She also apparently lived until the destruction of Alderan, not that that was ever mentioned in the movies.

[Regulator75]

Link

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

Is it not possible that Leia simply assumed that Queen Organa was her real mother, and that this is who she was referencing in the conversation with Luke? He has no memory of his mother and at that exact moment she isn't fully aware that they're twins, so I always assumed it logical that Leia never knew that she was a twin who'd been separated from her real mother and sibling at birth.

This makes perfect sense.

[Itse]

I think a bit of a triangle between Obi-Wan, Padme and Anakin would be cool, but I think it only really works if those are two completely different relationships.

With Obi-Wan, Padme would be her intelligent and controlled self. The two enjoy talking politics and philosophy and feel like kindred spirits, connected by their urge to make the world a better place. This relationship is too adult to do turn into anything seriously romantic (let alone sexual) under the circumstances, despite obvious mutual affection. Essentially they're just two very good friends. This friendship would however be quite enough to make Anakin jealous, especially since he always feels somewhat overshadowed by Obi-Wan.

Anakin and Padme on the other hand would be the secret "teenage" rebellion for both of them. They have both been shoved into extremely controlled surroundings from a very young age, and are at times desperate to just follow their instincts. They understand each others need to escape from all that, to stop controlling their feelings and just let go and have some fun. Of course their relationship is also very much about young heat.

But of course feeding the rebellious side of an extremely powerful jedi is a very dangerous path, and ultimately Obi-Wan must intervene.

(In fact, there is some of this dynamic in the prequel trilogies. Like everything it's just mostly very poorly done.)

[peter12]

It took an impressive 47 pages for the first allusions to Star Wars erotic fan fiction to surge out of the collective CP id.

[Regulator75]

Originally Posted by peter12

It took an impressive 47 pages for the first allusions to Star Wars erotic fan fiction to surge out of the collective CP id.

47? (try 16) People still use the forum default?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Previously
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=421

Ah perfect, thanks.

Is there any knowledge or backstory known about the new Sith Lord?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by peter12

It took an impressive 47 pages for the first allusions to Star Wars erotic fan fiction to surge out of the collective CP id.

Dude, if that counts as erotic for you, you have pretty low standards.

Let me introduce you to the internet...

(NSFW, but not too crazy. Just wtf )

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by saillias

Ah perfect, thanks.

Is there any knowledge or backstory known about the new Sith Lord?

Snoke, nope, and they'll probably jealously guard that til the next movie. We don't even know if he's actually a Sith Lord.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

Link

They really need to bring back Steve in the next movie.

Or have an anthology movie about him, his training, his hopes his dreams and his fierce loyalty to the First Order.

From his youth where he ran around the Imperial academy swinging a broom stick and dreaming of nothing but being a riot troopers.

To his days being bullied by Finn and the other jerks in sanitation who made fun of his frantic broom stick training.

To heroically standing up to the traitor and being show by the cowardly scum resistance.

To his desperate escape from the Star Killer base, to his vow to hunt down the Traitor.

We'll call it

Star Wars: Steve the Riot Trooper.

It'll win an oscar.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think a bit of a triangle between Obi-Wan, Padme and Anakin would be cool, but I think it only really works if those are two completely different relationships.

With Obi-Wan, Padme would be her intelligent and controlled self. The two enjoy talking politics and philosophy and feel like kindred spirits, connected by their urge to make the world a better place. This relationship is too adult to do turn into anything seriously romantic (let alone sexual) under the circumstances, despite obvious mutual affection. Essentially they're just two very good friends. This friendship would however be quite enough to make Anakin jealous, especially since he always feels somewhat overshadowed by Obi-Wan.

This is kind of how it was in Episode III. And there was a reference to Anakin being jealous when they arrived together on Mustafar. It's why he choked her.

PS: I always thought it would have been better for her to die there. Anakin not realizing his own strength in his rage kills her and then blames Obi-Wan for bringing her with him. Babies are saved post-mortem.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is kind of how it was in Episode III. And there was a reference to Anakin being jealous when they arrived together on Mustafar. It's why he choked her.

PS: I always thought it would have been better for her to die there. Anakin not realizing his own strength in his rage kills her and then blames Obi-Wan for bringing her with him. Babies are saved post-mortem.

Actually its funny because I forgot about this. In the novel, Obi-Wan was concerned about Anakin and went to talk to Padme who he thought was a friend of Anakin's to get her opinion on him.

Later on Palpatine was having a conversation about how the Senate was impeding the war effort, and he dropped the hint that a young Senator had a suspicious meeting with a Jedi. He didn't name names or anything like that. Just dropped this broad hint.

Anakin went to Padme's house and started picking up traces of Obi-Wan, and became jealous.

It wasn't like he suspected that Obi-Wan and Padme were doing Force Lifts in the bedroom. But he was paranoid about the Jedi Council finding out about his marriage to her and would actively try to break them up or separate them.

It goes back to how much control Palpatine had over every situation.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is kind of how it was in Episode III. And there was a reference to Anakin being jealous when they arrived together on Mustafar. It's why he choked her.

Kind of yeah, but only kind of. In practice the relationship of Anakin and Padme doesn't make sense for Padme at any point in the movies, and the relationships of Padme and Obi-Wan is barely explored.

That one scene on Mustafar is pretty much the only moment where we see this dynamic at work.

PS: I always thought it would have been better for her to die there. Anakin not realizing his own strength in his rage kills her and then blames Obi-Wan for bringing her with him. Babies are saved post-mortem.

Yeah I think that would have worked.

But then again you can point to almost anything in the prequels and say "this would have been better if done like this". They're just those kinds of movies.

A shame really. Those prequels could have been solid movies with competent directors and some more competent writers giving the the script a do-over.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is kind of how it was in Episode III. And there was a reference to Anakin being jealous when they arrived together on Mustafar. It's why he choked her.

PS: I always thought it would have been better for her to die there. Anakin not realizing his own strength in his rage kills her and then blames Obi-Wan for bringing her with him. Babies are saved post-mortem.

That was the scene that made my 7 year old not sleep. She is convinced that he killed her because the whole not wanting to live anymore because Anakin is gone is stupid.

She wouldn't even have to die there but just die from those injuries. Its almost like they didn't want to go even darker then it already was so they destroyed Padme's character making her need Anakin to be whole.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is kind of how it was in Episode III. And there was a reference to Anakin being jealous when they arrived together on Mustafar. It's why he choked her.

PS: I always thought it would have been better for her to die there. Anakin not realizing his own strength in his rage kills her and then blames Obi-Wan for bringing her with him. Babies are saved post-mortem.

Honestly I would have preferred that too, however I think Lucas really wanted that whole Please save him, there is still good in him.

Also I have to wonder how redeemable Anakin would have been if he had force choked her and snapped her neck.

In the case of how it was done, Anakin had that moment of rage and then relented and let her go, and Hayden had that one second look of what am I doing.

In the book when Anakin meets up with Padme on Mustafar there were two neat bits. When he ran out to meet her he put on his Anakin mask.

when he looked at her and she was talking about him coming away with her and to leave this behind. In his mind he commented on how small and insignificant she looked.

I loved a part of that scene in the movie. When he comes out to meet her, you see him stride out, he has his hood up, then he lowers the hood and bounds to her and embraces her.

I thought that was well done.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Itse

Kind of yeah, but only kind of. In practice the relationship of Anakin and Padme doesn't make sense for Padme at any point in the movies, and the relationships of Padme and Obi-Wan is barely explored.

That one scene on Mustafar is pretty much the only moment where we see this dynamic at work.



Yeah I think that would have worked.

But then again you can point to almost anything in the prequels and say "this would have been better if done like this". They're just those kinds of movies.

A shame really. Those prequels could have been solid movies with competent directors and some more competent writers giving the the script a do-over.

Yeah, for all the time spent on Anakin and Padme, the personal relationships in the prequels were just not very well done. Anakin and Padme? Nauseating. Nothing about them felt genuine. Obi-wan and Padme? They had a mutual respect and concern for Anakin, that's about it. Anakin and Obi-Wan? The best of the three, but much more focus was on Anakin's frustration and anger towards him and the Jedi than any part of their friendship, which really should have been explored a lot more in Part II.

I've said it before, but I just don't think anyone had the balls in the prequels to tell George something was off. If you look at Harrison Ford's scripts from the originals they are absolutely inundated with red ink from Ford. He had an idea of what the character should be and edited hi language accordingly. Did it change any plotlines? No, just the demeanor of the character. No one did that in the prequels and just took George's words as gospel.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Honestly I would have preferred that too, however I think Lucas really wanted that whole Please save him, there is still good in him.

Also I have to wonder how redeemable Anakin would have been if he had force choked her and snapped her neck.

In the case of how it was done, Anakin had that moment of rage and then relented and let her go, and Hayden had that one second look of what am I doing.

In the book when Anakin meets up with Padme on Mustafar there were two neat bits. When he ran out to meet her he put on his Anakin mask.

when he looked at her and she was talking about him coming away with her and to leave this behind. In his mind he commented on how small and insignificant she looked.

I loved a part of that scene in the movie. When he comes out to meet her, you see him stride out, he has his hood up, then he lowers the hood and bounds to her and embraces her.

I thought that was well done.

Yeah Part III is well-done overall, but it's weakness is still in the dialogue.

As for my edit, I think it could have worked (doesn't have to be as violent as snapping her neck, just accidentally suffocating her). Two small things would have to change: the "Save him. There's still good in him" line could have been said in their meeting on Coruscant and then it is Obi-Wan who goes to Mustafar and Padme who stashes away in HIS ship.

You still get your "Vader vs Anakin" moment where he goes out to meet Obi-Wan in a rage, sees Padme and has his Anakin moment before accusing them both of betraying him. He kills her by accident (opportunity for a moment of remorse and emotion before turning to pure rage and attacking Obi-Wan). "You killed her Anakin." "You did!" Queue Duel of Fates.

[Knalus]

Regarding the identity of Snoke - I've figured it out.

So, Snoke was there at the end of the Empire, correct? He says (in the book) that he saw the final confrontation between The Emperor, Vader, and Skywalker, correct? And he looks badly burned and scarred. Therefore, he had to have been on the Second Death Star. That means he wasn't some outworld force wielder, such as the Nightsisters, or some clone like Joruus, but was there. It also then likely isn't some fallen Jedi, as the Emperor would have had none of that around him. So who was he?

I used to be the biggest Star Wars nerd that ever was. That was before the prequels, when the "cannon" of the Thrawn Trilogy, and the Jedi Academy books were so thoroughly crapped upon by George himself. It wasn't until a few years ago, when the Clone Wars brought me back in. Nevertheless, I knew a tonne about what was happening in the background back in the day. That's how come I recognized Snoke.

Spoiler!

This guy.

The emperor, on the Second Death Star, was consulting with a pair of diviners, or dark side fortune tellers. They appear briefly in the ROTJ, and it's actually not easy to find a picture like this online, but there they are. I'm guessing the guy on the right is Snoke.


Of course, my original thought is that he wasn't super large, either. That he was in actual fact really small. Like the Wizard of Oz. Or another character voiced by Frank Oz. Yoda's evil twin, if you will. His good-for-nothing brother-in-law.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Regarding the identity of Snoke - I've figured it out.

So, Snoke was there at the end of the Empire, correct? He says (in the book) that he saw the final confrontation between The Emperor, Vader, and Skywalker, correct? And he looks badly burned and scarred. Therefore, he had to have been on the Second Death Star. That means he wasn't some outworld force wielder, such as the Nightsisters, or some clone like Joruus, but was there. It also then likely isn't some fallen Jedi, as the Emperor would have had none of that around him. So who was he?

I used to be the biggest Star Wars nerd that ever was. That was before the prequels, when the "cannon" of the Thrawn Trilogy, and the Jedi Academy books were so thoroughly crapped upon by George himself. It wasn't until a few years ago, when the Clone Wars brought me back in. Nevertheless, I knew a tonne about what was happening in the background back in the day. That's how come I recognized Snoke.

Spoiler!

This guy.

The emperor, on the Second Death Star, was consulting with a pair of diviners, or dark side fortune tellers. They appear briefly in the ROTJ, and it's actually not easy to find a picture like this online, but there they are. I'm guessing the guy on the right is Snoke.


Of course, my original thought is that he wasn't super large, either. That he was in actual fact really small. Like the Wizard of Oz. Or another character voiced by Frank Oz. Yoda's evil twin, if you will. His good-for-nothing brother-in-law.

It just reminds me of when Vader was talking to a hologram of the Emperor from his ship in Empire Strikes Back, the Emperor didnt have a 20 foot tall head its just the way the hologram works to imply superiority.

[Ashasx]

But where would dark side fortune tellers learn about lightsaber arts and the force? How would he have gained any power to the point of becoming Supreme Leader?

[Regulator75]