In fact, I'd say if you took all the people who have ever lived, it would be modern Westerners who would stand out for our unusually mild and tolerant approach to religion and faith. But our new-found mildness is not the historical norm.
I have no historical basis for this but intuitively I just think it's the enlightenment that has so completely changed the way we perceive reality. There is a ton of cognitive dissonance in trying to identify with people who have a certainty that there is an afterlife and that following certain scripture will absolutely get them there.
Imagine a world where you had a series of drones strikes tomorrow, and Obama got on television and said, "we have killed ten enemy combatants in these attacks. Moreover, three dozen innocent civilians died, including several children; and this is for the best, as they are all now with God in Heaven and better off than they were. Hallelujah!" *raucous cheering and applause*
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The majority of Muslim daily practice as well as jurisprudence (sharia law) are drawn mainly from the Hadith and not the Quran. Depending on which sect of Islam, different Hadith are followed.
For those who don't know, the Hadith are collections of words and actions which are attributed to Mohammed. They consist of two parts, a list of who told who (I heard Joey say that he heard from mike that he heard from Louis that Louis heard Mohammed say...) and then the saying or the observance of Mohammed.
A lot of things we equate with Islam, such as not drawing images of the prophet, or that dogs are dirty, come from the Hadith and not the Quran.
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The majority of Muslim daily practice as well as jurisprudence (sharia law) are drawn mainly from the Hadith and not the Quran. Depending on which sect of Islam, different Hadith are followed.
For those who don't know, the Hadith are collections of words and actions which are attributed to Mohammed. They consist of two parts, a list of who told who (I heard Joey say that he heard from mike that he heard from Louis that Louis heard Mohammed say...) and then the saying or the observance of Mohammed.
A lot of things we equate with Islam, such as not drawing images of the prophet, or that dogs are dirty, come from the Hadith and not the Quran.
Wait...wut?
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There are a number if hadiths which outline the impurity of dogs, the necessity to avoid touching dogs, that angels will not enter houses in which there are dogs, and that black dogs are in fact devils and should be killed.
It's more like the radicals are not happy with the direction that Islam is going, you know, evolution. They are not happy about Muslims being more Western and is punishing the West for it.
If I use Korea as an example, the youths there are much more Westernized and materialistic then even 5 years ago. But there are no radicals that are upset about it (except maybe grandmothers but they have no weapons, hee)
Are these nations more Western now? Look at places like Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc from the 60s. They look very progressive and Western.
The problem was at some point a group of radicals began to associate Islam with this ultra conservative culture and selectively use passages from the Koran to justify this. For example the Koran pushes female education, but the ultra conservative political forces have taken the place of that teaching in many places.
I think you're right, but to be fair the Qur'an doesn't push female education as far as I recall. There's a sort of generalized commandment to "read", but it's not gender-specific. On the other hand, Sura 33:33 is directed at wives of the Prophet:
Quote:
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.
You can imagine how that might be interpreted to restrict women's education, among other things.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Are these nations more Western now? Look at places like Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc from the 60s. They look very progressive and Western.
The problem was at some point a group of radicals began to associate Islam with this ultra conservative culture and selectively use passages from the Koran to justify this. For example the Koran pushes female education, but the ultra conservative political forces have taken the place of that teaching in many places.
from the 60s? it's different now, internet, sex, music, fashion, tattoos everything.
1960 Western culture was pretty conservative. Elvis was the devil!
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To sum up: religion is silly, it makes people do silly things, and by extension religious people are silly people.
Statements like these are so patronizing. I don't care if someone doesn't care for religion, but this attitude of superiority is so ridiculous. Here's an example, let's say there was a secular "religious book", it would say "Even if a man is married, he can have sex with other women in exchange for money" in terms of legalized prostitution. Now, because the non-religious person has grown up with the idea that this is perfectly ok, it does not sound too bad. But for some religious people, this sounds crazy. There's a way to show your disagreements with religion without insulting.
Doesn't matter if it's patronizing. It's supposed to be.
It's ridiculous that in the year 2015 we have powerful, otherwise smart people letting their lives be run based on a LITERAL fairy tail written thousands of years ago. All because they're afraid of the idea that they're not special little snowflakes created by some all powerful being who has to have some sort of master plan and cause their afraid of the fact that once you die its over.
2000 years ago when we were at the center of our world and had no understanding of science, it made sense to believe it. Now it's just ridiculous.
Last edited by polak; 11-22-2015 at 01:56 PM.
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Are these nations more Western now? Look at places like Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc from the 60s. They look very progressive and Western.
The problem was at some point a group of radicals began to associate Islam with this ultra conservative culture and selectively use passages from the Koran to justify this. For example the Koran pushes female education, but the ultra conservative political forces have taken the place of that teaching in many places.
The first two had fallen dictatorships which led to a vaccuum filled by religious leaders. The Shah and the Mubarak line of dictators pushed away from religion because god is a challenger to a dictator's authority. Brutality of the regimes plus restrictions led to opposition forming under the religious banner. Muslin Brotherhood and Ayatollah etc.
Afghanistan, was obviously screwed up by war. Russian invasion screwed them.
I guess I question whether in the absence of religion something else would have filled the vacuum.
I think it would of. Canada had Quebec Nationialists kidnap and murder people. The IRA as much as it was Protestant / Catholic was about power. European fascists right now are brewing and I would expect retaliation and hate crimes back against non whites as a result of this.
I think it goes back evolutionarily to that outsiders are a threat to your fan being passed down. And are ability as humans to create rules to reduce decision making which freed the brain for many other tasks.
So I think without religion you still have these same groups wielding significant power using other means to convince people to become suicide bombers
Statements like these are so patronizing. I don't care if someone doesn't care for religion, but this attitude of superiority is so ridiculous. Here's an example, let's say there was a secular "religious book", it would say "Even if a man is married, he can have sex with other women in exchange for money" in terms of legalized prostitution. Now, because the non-religious person has grown up with the idea that this is perfectly ok, it does not sound too bad. But for some religious people, this sounds crazy. There's a way to show your disagreements with religion without insulting.
There wouldn't be a secular religious book, they are called laws, and they are allowed to be discussed, debated and changed as society evolves. They are agreed upon and maintained by people, not some fictitious being in the sky who can do no wrong.
If you can think of anything more patronizing than "if you don't follow my religion you are going to hell", I'd like to hear it.
Most religious people aren't bad or stupid people, but man are they defensive. At what point is it going to be OK to acknowledge that these books from thousands of years ago are just that: books. And they might not have all the best ideas on everything, especially at this time in history.
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Yeah tons of Buddhist extremists out there, terrorizing people with meditation and silence.
This is just as ignorant as calling Islam a Faith of Hate. Do you realize their is literally dozens of differnt forms of Buddhism just like the many off shoots of Christianity. They have many different beliefs.
It's a sect war and a war against Assads army for them, you believe in their way or get in their way you are dead, but make no mistake, they hate christians/westerners even more.
I don't need Fox to show me Islam is a crazy religion filled with bad ideas.
Sorry to burst your bubble but when innocent people get slaughtered around the world for not believing or drawing cartoons it's not fear...it absolute disgust.
And even without the attacks on "westerners" this barbaric religion slaughters it own in public view for things like adultery,sorcery(),leaving Islam,being gay and even ripping a page out of the Qur'an.
A couple of other points:
-The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.(nice book)
-Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.(lol,proved wrong many times)
It's simple, Islam is a religion of hate...period.
You do know in many African country's that this same acts are perform in the name of Christianity on a regular occurance as well.
The Qu'ran does just like the Bible have verses that contridict each other. http://www.islamforpeace.org/quran.html
Quote:
Respect his freedom of choice to be a "Disbeliever" - as this is a right bestowed upon humanity by God:
Quran 18:29 proclaims, "The truth is from your Lord": it is the free will of any person to believe (in God) or to be an Infidel (Un believer).
. Even if a Muslim should be convinced that someone is a non-believer, still he must accept that his fate is in the hands of God alone, since no one human can condemn another - this must be left to the judgment of God.
Quran 88:25-26 for behold, unto (ONLY) Us (means God) will be their return, Then it will be for (ONLY) Us to Judge (humans).
22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians (can mean an ancient religion or people with no specific religion), Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.
Is this you?
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 11-22-2015 at 06:58 PM.
I despise the rhetorical hypotheticals, what if what if what if... can't stand the Young Turks.
Ya I included that one because of the video. It also explained that they were holding a meeting to say we our building a Mosque on property they own. They didn't need to hold that meeting they could have just done it.
),leaving Islam,being gay and even ripping a page out of the Qur'an.