That's a heavy presumption. There's a school of thought that the City offered only a loan or a loan guarantee for a 1/3 portion, which ends up being a contribution only if the Flames default in payment. Given Nenshi's comments way back about no money, that may be the offer they made.
Perhaps. Will have to wait until more details are released I suppose.
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"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
So you want people who have a different opinion of you to argue a certain way? That's not how debate works.
There are indeed reasons to want the arena and have a team that go beyond economic impact.
The way you are framing your argument is a filtered view of that position based on your POV.
You can disagree, but what gives you the right to tell someone how they are allowed to argue for their side?
I want people who have a different opinion to me to be honest about why they have that opinion and not continue going to the well of arguments that has been shown again and again to be dubious at best.
The way I'm framing my argument is as someone who has seen the numerous commentaries and documents linked in the multiple iterations of these threads showing that this is a bad deal for cities, and now get to see the same people, who just completely ignore the above, try to trot out the same talking points again and again.
I can totally accept someone who has weighed the cost/benefit scenarios and decided in spite of them that this is something they want because they love the Flames. As I said, clearly, in my post.
As for the "what gives you the right" part, come on. You're a little tougher than that.
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Nenshi has been the stumbling block all along, get rid of him.the flames give back more to the city than a giant blue ring or rocks attached to sticks.
I don't think the art work or how the city spends money on other projects is relevant.
But Nenshi has been adversarial to the process just as much as the Flames have, and the Flames throwing in the towel for now means that they don't want to deal with him.
Nenshi doesn't want partnerships, he wants people to tell him how right he is 24 hours a day.
I'm interesting to see what his reaction is today, if he comes out and blasts the Flames ownership, then this process is done until he's gone.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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In fact he was quite clear that they have made a VIC PARK proposal to the city but hadn't heard a word back from them since July 31, and when Nenshi publically proclaimed his vision for Vic Park 2 days ago, KK called his office to get clarity. When he was told by Nenshi's chief of staff that the CSEG idea was a no go for the mayor, KK relayed that information to ownership. They then made a decision to quit negotiating with the city at all.
So this does boil down to Nenshi wanting to move forward with his vision and establishment of his legacy in Victoria Park rather than coming to an agreement that will work for all parties. That wasn't too hard to read into based on Nenshi's own re-election website.
Nenshi has been the stumbling block all along, get rid of him.the flames give back more to the city than a giant blue ring or rocks attached to sticks.
Be thankful someone is asking tough questions and trying to get a respectable deal for taxpayers. I'm not the biggest Nenshi fan but I'm certainly glad we aren't bending over and taking it like Edmonton did with Katz.
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I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
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Sorry for the dumb question, I'm not too familar with how local politics work. I keeping seeing that Nenshi is only 1 vote on the city council, why can't the Flames work with the other council members to get something done. So Nenshi votes against it, if they have the votes it shouldn't mattter?
Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Yeah, it's comical that it took an Edmonton journalist to point out that the other teams won't let a profitable Calgary franchise relocate. The fact the local media hasn't admitted that basic truth shows that they're either in the pocket of the Flames, or just really dim.
Nenshi has been the stumbling block all along, get rid of him.the flames give back more to the city than a giant blue ring or rocks attached to sticks.
We can agree on this. I vote we will give the flames $1 million to build a new arena.
Sorry for the dumb question, I'm not too familar with how local politics work. I keeping seeing that Nenshi is only 1 vote on the city council, why can't the Flames work with the other council members to get something done. So Nenshi votes against it, if they have the votes it shouldn't mattter?
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
The Nenshi reaction will be fascinating to watch. Without any inside knowledge of how things have gone behind closed doors, I can't blame Nenshi for much of anything. Having said that, it seems pretty clear that Nenshi's campaign webpage pissed off CSES. I assume it is because he is positioning himself publically as a supporter of the arena, and making the CSES the bad guy. All of that might actually be true, but we'll need to see what the 2 plans are for Vic Park before we can allocate blame properly.
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From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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Days like yesterday make it very hard for me to be a STH with good conscience. I wish I was more principled because my love for watching johnny/mony magic overcomes my sense of...whatever this feeling is towards the ownership of this hockey team i enjoy so much
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Sorry for the dumb question, I'm not too familar with how local politics work. I keeping seeing that Nenshi is only 1 vote on the city council, why can't the Flames work with the other council members to get something done. So Nenshi votes against it, if they have the votes it shouldn't mattter?
Only one vote, but he has allies and moreover, he sets the public agenda and to a large extent controls the debate.
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So this does boil down to Nenshi wanting to move forward with his vision and establishment of his legacy in Victoria Park rather than coming to an agreement that will work for all parties. That wasn't too hard to read into based on Nenshi's own re-election website.
Call me crazy but if the Flames want to use public funding to the tune they were asking, they most definitely should have zero say in where said building is constructed and what it looks like.
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I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
I realize that we don't have the details yet, but presuming that the City's contribution is to be repaid by CRL (so really, this amounts to little more than a direct payment from the City to the Flames), I'm surprised that there aren't more posters in this thread saying 1/3 is way too much from the City. For me, it is at the very top of my "tolerable range", and really is only justified by my own personal emotional attachment to the Flames.
I'm on side with this and totally agree. I think there is some public benefit to having the team even if it not measurable like "civic pride" but not everything needs to be functional. The peace bridge is amazing but we could have build a bridge for half the cost but sometimes it's fun to have nice things.
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Just ordered a lawn sign and donated to his re-election campaign. Made sure to note the donation was for not bending over to a bunch of greedy billionaires.
Personally I'm overjoyed he's been a "stumbling block". These guys shouldn't get to pillage this city for free money and buildings.
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