2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Monahammer]

Tkachuk for Laine and Liam Foudy?

[Lanny_McDonald]

In a heartbeat.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

In a heartbeat.

I think chucky would explode in an american market beside a longtime friend like Roslovic. At least he would always be relatively far away from us.

It is a gamble for us- Laine is going to want money long term. But Foudy could also be a sneaky good add.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Tkachuk for Laine and Liam Foudy?

Woof. Just my opinion.

[Monahammer]

Monahan+Tkachuk+1st for Eichel is the other route to try and take.

Very rich and I am actually most reticent giving up the pick at this point lol. But Eichel might be worth it- though it seems his motivation is also quite suspect.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Monahan+Tkachuk+1st for Eichel is the other route to try and take.

Very rich and I am actually most reticent giving up the pick at this point lol. But Eichel might be worth it- though it seems his motivation is also quite suspect.

If they give Hall at 50% included then I think that’s a fair deal. It’s not like Hall is going to stay there, and I think his poor season with the worst team in the NHL could very well be a blessing in disguise. We could sign him on a 5x5, he’d be taking a discount but I think he’s do it to be in a Flames sweater. Maybe add a decent prospect on our end if they add Hall @50%, but that is a deal I’d look at. I don’t care much for the first (top 3 protected) but Monahan + 2021 1st < Eichel

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Tkachuk for Laine and Liam Foudy?

Liam Foudy sounds like a celebrity chef.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Monahan+Tkachuk+1st for Eichel is the other route to try and take.

Very rich and I am actually most reticent giving up the pick at this point lol. But Eichel might be worth it- though it seems his motivation is also quite suspect.

The Flames need to take the players they need to move and fill gaps. They need to play some money puck here and try to fill gaps that add up to probable success. People hate the idea of moving Tkachuk (along with two lesser players) for Forsberg and Arvidsson, but in that deal we get back two players that fill important gaps - a top six LW and a top six RW - while only giving up a single significant asset. We may take a step backward in star power, but we have to do that if we want to have a stronger team. If we move three top end assets (1st C, 2nd LW, 1st round pick) for one player, and end up losing another in Gaudreau (1st LW) to free agency, then we're screwed as there is not much on the farm with the upside to fill the lost gaps. Better to move these guys for players that bring back players that will move us forward now, even if it appears to be a minor step backwards in quality. So turn Tkachuk into Forsberg and Arvidsson, then turn Gaudreau into Konecky and Frost and hope the extra depth in skill moves the team forward, because we are missing the hell out of that depth up the lineup.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Flames need to take the players they need to move and fill gaps. They need to play some money puck here and try to fill gaps that add up to probable success. People hate the idea of moving Tkachuk (along with two lesser players) for Forsberg and Arvidsson, but in that deal we get back two players that fill important gaps - a top six LW and a top six RW - while only giving up a single significant asset. We may take a step backward in star power, but we have to do that if we want to have a stronger team. If we move three top end assets (1st C, 2nd LW, 1st round pick) for one player, and end up losing another in Gaudreau (1st LW) to free agency, then we're screwed as there is not much on the farm with the upside to fill the lost gaps. Better to move these guys for players that bring back players that will move us forward now, even if it appears to be a minor step backwards in quality. So turn Tkachuk into Forsberg and Arvidsson, then turn Gaudreau into Konecky and Frost and hope the extra depth in skill moves the team forward, because we are missing the hell out of that depth up the lineup.

Except we don’t need depth. We’ve been on the depth train since forever, we need high end skill. The league is turning into playing your skilled players for 22/23 minutes a night. Those extra 6 minutes the top end players of the opposing team are burning us. Eichel >> Forsberg/Arvidsson/Konecny>> Frost

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Flames need to take the players they need to move and fill gaps. They need to play some money puck here and try to fill gaps that add up to probable success. People hate the idea of moving Tkachuk (along with two lesser players) for Forsberg and Arvidsson, but in that deal we get back two players that fill important gaps - a top six LW and a top six RW - while only giving up a single significant asset. We may take a step backward in star power, but we have to do that if we want to have a stronger team. If we move three top end assets (1st C, 2nd LW, 1st round pick) for one player, and end up losing another in Gaudreau (1st LW) to free agency, then we're screwed as there is not much on the farm with the upside to fill the lost gaps. Better to move these guys for players that bring back players that will move us forward now, even if it appears to be a minor step backwards in quality. So turn Tkachuk into Forsberg and Arvidsson, then turn Gaudreau into Konecky and Frost and hope the extra depth in skill moves the team forward, because we are missing the hell out of that depth up the lineup.

Not saying I disagree, as my other proposal (Tkachuk for Laine+foudy) was extremely similar to that one.

But, IMO if we land Eichel we are also going to be resigning Johnny.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I have hated the Markstrom contract before it was signed, at the time it was signed, now, and probably in the future. I expected him to put up great numbers (even Vezina worthy) the first 2 years, and then bad numbers in the following 4 years. I criticized the contract because you can't have an $6 million anchor for 4 years.

So far, Markstrom has performed well below my expectations. If he's putting up 90.3% in his prime, what is he going to do at 34, 35, 36 and 37 years old?
He's 31 and his career save percentage is 91%. Does anyone here actually think his save percentage will be higher than that when the contract ends?

The league average this year is only 90.7%. Markstrom stat's are bad. But they're not that far below average. Interestingly, of the top 11 highest paid goalies in the league, only Vasilevsky, Fleury, and Hellebuyck have save percentages that are above league average.
I think the biggest problem is that he shouldn't be playing so much. I still believe that Markstrom can end the season at 91.0%+ with Sutter as coach. But if he's going to do that, he can't continue to play more than 75% of the games.

And I know many of you are going to blame the team's performance for Markstrom's bad save percentage. That's true, and that's while I think it'll improve under Sutter. But Rittich has a higher save percentage playing in front of the same team. There's no reason Rittich should be sitting out for 6 games in a row.

Give Markstrom some rest. I bet his stat's will improve and then I can calm down with criticism for his long contract.

I agree with your last two paragraphs but the first half of your post is pure nonsense. I don’t know how anyone who has watched this team play this year can think Markstrom hasn’t pulled his weight. Unless you thought he was going to be lights out every single night? In which case that’s on you for having unrealistic expectations.

He’s had like 3 mediocre games and 1 really bad game this year. He’s not the problem. Not even close. And I’m extremely happy we don’t have to worry about this position for 5 more years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Except we don’t need depth. We’ve been on the depth train since forever, we need high end skill. The league is turning into playing your skilled players for 22/23 minutes a night. Those extra 6 minutes the top end players of the opposing team are burning us. Eichel >> Forsberg/Arvidsson/Konecny>> Frost

So we are short on skill players and are going to trade two of our best, plus a pick that has the best chance of landing another one, for one possible high skill player? What happens if Eichel doesn't turn into this super high end performer that so many around here think he is? What happens when he comes to Calgary, has no one to play with, and doesn't compare to the German Gretzky let alone McHobo? What happens when he's the same player in Calgary as he is in Buffalo? The way you beat teams with this "high end" talent is to grind them into the ground by rolling four lines at them that can score and play tough hockey. We need depth. We need another top six player to achieve that goal. Reducing the number of quality players we have is no tonic to what troubles this team. We need to turn one or two of those players into three or four.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by New Era

So we are short on skill players and are going to trade two of our best, plus a pick that has the best chance of landing another one, for one possible high skill player? What happens if Eichel doesn't turn into this super high end performer that so many around here think he is? What happens when he comes to Calgary, has no one to play with, and doesn't compare to the German Gretzky let alone McHobo? What happens when he's the same player in Calgary as he is in Buffalo? The way you beat teams with this "high end" talent is to grind them into the ground by rolling four lines at them that can score and play tough hockey. We need depth. We need another top six player to achieve that goal. Reducing the number of quality players we have is no tonic to what troubles this team. We need to turn one or two of those players into three or four.

There is a massive difference between Monahan and Eichel. Eichel >> Monahan, Hall < Tkachuk. In a cap world having a player like Hall that could be very well be signed for cheaper than what he’s getting paid (by like 1/3 of what he’s paid right now) and grabbing a franchise center who is locked up for 5 years after this one is much more enticing than downgrading Gaudreau to Konecny and also trading for Forsberg, who is a pending UFA in 2022 and Arvidsson who is already too hot and cold enough (just like Monahan). You then have Gaudreau and Hall as your top 6 LW’s and Eichel/Lindholm as your top 6 C’s, with Dube and Mangiapane taking the RW spots.

You could argue that I am relying too much on Hall signing here. If he doesn’t, no harm, no foul. We can use that extra cap space in the offseason to go for a top 6 RW. I just don’t think Forsberg and Konecny make this team better, I think Eichel does. And if he didn’t want to be here, at least we had him for 5 years before he bounced. We increase our window significantly with Eichel/Lindholm/Backlund as our 3 centers rolled out. It’s fine we upgrade our position we lack most, not bolster the wings.

This isn’t even considering that we were able to retain Gaudreau AND grab Eichel. PP would be miles better, and you can have Eichel and Gaudreau on separate lines to create a more dangerous lineup, as they both need the puck to make the plays happen.

[nik-]

Still no to Taylor Hall. A player with questionable motivation who generally consistently underperforms his potential level. Why import the same problem we have?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Except we don’t need depth. We’ve been on the depth train since forever, we need high end skill. The league is turning into playing your skilled players for 22/23 minutes a night. Those extra 6 minutes the top end players of the opposing team are burning us. Eichel >> Forsberg/Arvidsson/Konecny>> Frost

I've made my own Eichel proposals to so not pointing at you specifically but if we are being honest and they go to market with him; I don't see any scenario where the Flames come out on top of the bidding war with out gutting the roster or prospect base to the point we aren't any better than Buffalo. Cost vs Benefit dealing with Nashville probably does get us further ahead. In a vacuum thats a good offer (For Eichel) but when you account for what other teams will be offering price will go up.

If we did win we would have to hold onto Eichel and tank to fill in the missing pieces for a number of years. Which means he wants out again. If Buffalo is any indication it puts us no further ahead. He is no McDavid and needs more support to succeed than just 1 other good player.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hackey

We sure turn on players quick around here.

If they didn't spend on Markstrom not sure who they should have spent on. Maybe Hoffman? Does Hoffman alone make a bigger difference than Markstrom with Rittich as our number 1 and a real cheap back? Probably not and the same posters complaining now would be complaining about Brad not getting a number 1 goalie.

I suppose I sorta commend the org for going all-in, but for me it's more about the failure to recognize the fundamental flaws of this group. I've favoured a re-tool since the COL series, but instead we have more lipstick on a pig while our best assets decline in value (as terms reduce)

Originally Posted by nik-

Still no to Taylor Hall. A player with questionable motivation who generally consistently underperforms his potential level. Why import the same problem we have?

To win the lottery

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

There is a massive difference between Monahan and Eichel. Eichel >> Monahan, Hall < Tkachuk. In a cap world having a player like Hall that could be very well be signed for cheaper than what he’s getting paid (by like 1/3 of what he’s paid right now) and grabbing a franchise center who is locked up for 5 years after this one is much more enticing than downgrading Gaudreau to Konecny and also trading for Forsberg, who is a pending UFA in 2022 and Arvidsson who is already too hot and cold enough (just like Monahan). You then have Gaudreau and Hall as your top 6 LW’s and Eichel/Lindholm as your top 6 C’s, with Dube and Mangiapane taking the RW spots.

Whoa, where did Hall come into this equation? Hall wasn't part of any deal. With Hall involved that is a non-starter. We're moving out just short of $14M in salary and bringing in $18M. It is not likely that Hall is going to take much of a step backwards from his current $8M salary. So you have to figure out how you're going to fit $18M in the budget AND resign Gaudreau (which I think is a lost cause). Or are you suggesting Hall in place of Gaudreau? Because we've seen that in Buffalo right now and we know that doesn't work. I would not want to go that route in any shape or form. I'm open to Eichel, just don't think the squeeze is worth the juice.

You could argue that I am relying too much on Hall signing here. If he doesn’t, no harm, no foul. We can use that extra cap space in the offseason to go for a top 6 RW. I just don’t think Forsberg and Konecny make this team better, I think Eichel does. And if he didn’t want to be here, at least we had him for 5 years before he bounced. We increase our window significantly with Eichel/Lindholm/Backlund as our 3 centers rolled out. It’s fine we upgrade our position we lack most, not bolster the wings.

What extra cap space are you talking about here? Eichel is $10M. Hall is not going to take much of a hair cut on the $8M he is making this year, no matter how badly his numbers look. He isn't going to give Calgary a hometown discount to where he fits in the budget. If that were in the cards I think it would have happened this past summer. I think Hall has his eyes set elsewhere.

The cap space issue actually closes the window, not extend it. We would have to completely retool several areas of the team. We don't have enough quality young cost controlled players to fill out the team in the spots we need bodies. So we're going to have to rely on more guys at league minimum and players that are going to have to punch above their weight class. This is exactly where Milan Lucic's contract is massive anchor and detriment to the team. With these high priced players, you need to squeeze every dollar out of every player contract so you can afford the best middle six possible.

This isn’t even considering that we were able to retain Gaudreau AND grab Eichel. PP would be miles better, and you can have Eichel and Gaudreau on separate lines to create a more dangerous lineup, as they both need the puck to make the plays happen.

So you're suggesting that Gaudreau is going to be on another line and not with Eichel? What was the use of bringing in Eichel again? Who is Eichel going to play with? You're going to have to throw up a proposed lineup because you've lost me here. We're carving up the depth we have on the top lines to bring in a player who can't get it done in Buffalo, only to give him less talent to work with?

[ComixZone]

I'd argue that anything we've seen in Buffalo from Eichel/Hall this year is not something we should use as a baseline. The whole team has been a tire fire.

Eichel is the piece that Treliving should be after. Everything else is just noise. If we can acquire Eichel without giving up Lindholm, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Mangiapane and Markstrom - then it should be done.

#1 Goalie: Markstrom
#1 Centre: Eichel
#2 Centre: Lindholm
#1 Defenceman: Hanifin
#2 Defenceman: Andersson
#3 Defenceman: Valimaki
Head Coach: Darryl Sutter

That could be a championship contending core. Everything else around that is easier to fill. Right now we need to fill that #1 centre position, and Eichel is that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd argue that anything we've seen in Buffalo from Eichel/Hall this year is not something we should use as a baseline. The whole team has been a tire fire.

Eichel is the piece that Treliving should be after. Everything else is just noise. If we can acquire Eichel without giving up Lindholm, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Mangiapane and Markstrom - then it should be done.

That could be a championship contending core. Everything else around that is easier to fill. Right now we need to fill that #1 centre position, and Eichel is that.

That would be a dream, just don't see how the Flames compete on getting him. Will be beat on futures and don't think Monahan or Tkachuk move the needle as a center piece. Maybe Buffalo will Buffalo though.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bonded

That would be a dream, just don't see how the Flames compete on getting him. Will be beat on futures and don't think Monahan or Tkachuk move the needle as a center piece. Maybe Buffalo will Buffalo though.

I don't think LA or anyone is going to be offering out Byfield (some random media types have speculated as much).

I think our biggest competition may be Minnesota - which has Rossi (although I think he may be suffering from some severe COVID related issues), so I could definitely see them outbidding us. It would make a lot of sense for Minny to go in big on Eichel.

It'll be interesting to see what gets offered. If someone does come out with a Byfield offer (I don't see it happening), then yeah - that's that.