The New American Politics thread

[Kjesse]

This is not actually funny any longer, although for a long time I thought it was funny and despite that, even still, the Trump candidacy tickles my funny bone because it is so absurd.

There is an underlying horror in the fact that he has the support of nearly half of the voters. I'm all for upsetting the political elite of the USA, they need a full reboot, but this is not what I thought it would look like.

That Trump is tapping into deep discord and that it is hitting a nerve despite its absurdity should concern everyone.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm not debating the merits of modern American Libertarianism. I'm saying that calling them fringe right wingers doesn't make any sense. They share some views with traditionally ultra-conservative people, sure, but also hold other views that would immediately anathematize anyone who wanted to claim to be part of the purist right wing. It would be like saying that a party that wanted socialized medicine, significant regulations on wall street, gun regulations and a clearly worded constitutional amendment to prevent black people from voting, ban gay marriage and abortion was "extreme left". The last part totally disqualifies it from being slotted in as leftist.

The group that best demonstrates mainstream libertarianism these days is the Silicon Valley crowd. They certainly exert a great deal of influence on both parties, but probably find their place most comfortably among urban, cosmopolitan Democrats.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He applies his experience of an Appalachian "WWC" kid/man to that of the South, Northwest, etc

There are probably a great deal of similarities. This type of community is becoming a category all of its own.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm not debating the merits of modern American Libertarianism. I'm saying that calling them fringe right wingers doesn't make any sense. They share some views with traditionally ultra-conservative people, sure, but also hold other views that would immediately anathematize anyone who wanted to claim to be part of the purist right wing. It would be like saying that a party that wanted socialized medicine, significant regulations on wall street, gun regulations and a clearly worded constitutional amendment to prevent black people from voting and ban gay marriage and abortion was "extreme left". The last part totally disqualifies it from being slotted in as leftist.

I don't care if you disagree with where they slot in the political spectrum it's where they end up in the political spectrum based on how they weight their platform. It is all well and good to claim that you are legalizing weed, but if you're willing to put that at the bottom of your laundry list of important issues that says you aren't serious on the issue. Saying you have something on you platform is not the same as believing in that issue enough to put skin in the game to get something done. Hence the libertarians being more Bircher than than true libertarians. Ron and Rand Paul are examples of what passes for libertarians in the US. It is not th classical definition but instead a bastardized pro-market, anti-regulation brand of libertarianism. The individual freedoms, the hallmark of true libertarianism, is only an after thought and possible outcome to not barriers on the free market and no taxes.

[GGG]

Quick question was Peter12s post a Thesis or a Dissertation

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't care if you disagree with where they slot in the political spectrum it's where they end up in the political spectrum based on how they weight their platform. It is all well and good to claim that you are legalizing weed, but if you're willing to put that at the bottom of your laundry list of important issues that says you aren't serious on the issue... Hence the libertarians being more Bircher than than true libertarians. Ron and Rand Paul are examples of what passes for libertarians in the US.

I think you're completely wrong about this. Gary Johnson disagrees with about half of Rand Paul's politics, and is the Libertarian candidate. So how does Rand Paul represent libertarians? Their platform doesn't minimize pot legalization; their candidate runs a marijuana company for Christ's sake. His central platform as a governor was a combination of school vouchers and opposition to the war on drugs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

Quick question was Peter12s post a Thesis or a Dissertation

Both.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GGG

Quick question was Peter12s post a Thesis or a Dissertation

I wanted to write more, but I felt I was already pushing the boundaries. Maybe I should do a PhD.

[peter12]

As I have said before, if you want to see what real libertarians look like, look to the Peter Thiel, and the rest of the Silicon Valley crowd. I bet they vote disproportionately high for Johnson (like around 10%), and the rest go for Clinton for the reasons I stated in my thesis.

[GGG]

A grid is much better than a spectrum these days with fiscal conservative / liberal and social liberal / conservative being the X and Y axis.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I think you're completely wrong about this. Gary Johnson disagrees with about half of Rand Paul's politics, and is the Libertarian candidate. So how does Rand Paul represent libertarians? Their platform doesn't minimize pot legalization; their candidate runs a marijuana company for Christ's sake.

How are they polling? How were they polling with Ron and Rand as the front men driving policy? Like I said, the libertarian vein in this country is extremely right wing and not supportive of the party Johnson is leading.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GGG

A grid is much better than a spectrum these days with fiscal conservative / liberal and social liberal / conservative being the X and Y axis.

At this point, just envision the American political spectrum as one gigantic dog-fight.

Canada is still remarkably quaint in how we stick to the old adages of right and left.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

How are they polling? How were they polling with Ron and Rand as the front men driving policy? Like I said, the libertarian vein in this country is extremely right wing and not supportive of the party Johnson is leading.

Nah. American libertarianism is best exemplified in the personal liberation of the Democratic Party, and the urban techno-elite.

The Right has been off that train for a long, long time.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Out of touch, or just straight up moronic? You decide...



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ual-harassment

I'm surprised that this isn't getting more traction. I love how Eric, purportedly trying to do damage control, ends up just doubling down and making it worse.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I'm surprised that this isn't getting more traction. I love how Eric, purportedly trying to do damage control, ends up just doubling down and making it worse.

It's very bone-headed, but like tons of things that come out of the Trump clan, there is a tiny element of truth that will resonate with a certain American.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by New Era

How are they polling? How were they polling with Ron and Rand as the front men driving policy? Like I said, the libertarian vein in this country is extremely right wing and not supportive of the party Johnson is leading.

Rand Paul has never run as a libertarian, and Ron hasn't been one for 20 years. When he was, he got 0.5% of the vote. Johnson's polling a fair sight better than that.

I think you're confusing the the libertarian movement, such as it is, with mainstream Republican voters who aren't motivated primarily by social issues.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

A grid is much better than a spectrum these days with fiscal conservative / liberal and social liberal / conservative being the X and Y axis.

A grid is good, but a sphere is probably more accurate. Some have moved so far to the left they have popped up on the right. The neo-conservatives (extreme right) were Trotzkyites (extreme left) as an example.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

At this point I frankly have no idea what the term "neo-conservative" means. I've heard far too many mutually exclusive definitions, including from people self-applying the label.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's very bone-headed, but like tons of things that come out of the Trump clan, there is a tiny element of truth that will resonate with a certain American.

Well, if you mean that a certain cohort of Americans will see a tiny element of truth in these comments, I totally agree. If you mean that there actually is a tiny element of truth to the comments, I don't think I can agree.

[nik-]

Biden's bad ass farewell tour just humming along.

Vice President Joe Biden presided over his first wedding ceremony Monday, which saw the marriage of two longtime White House staffers.

Biden posted a photo on Twitter with the message, “Proud to marry Brian and Joe at my house. Couldn’t be happier, two longtime White House staffers, two great guys.”

http://time.com/4434637/joe-biden-wh...ffers-wedding/