Russia invades Ukraine

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Did he fall on his Donbass?

What are the betting odds that Stephen Colbert uses this in his next monologue?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Did he fall on his Donbass?

I think he ate too much Taco Bell and had a hard time Pootin.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think it is you who misunderstands NATO, or have been wrapped up in this view that it constitutes a US led policy hegemony. It doesn't at all. It is extremely limited in scope. What NATO member was Orban promoting irredentism against? You mention 4. Ukraine is not a NATO member, maybe never will be, so any action taken against or in spite of Ukraine has no bearing at all on the terms of NATO.

Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Croatia. All 4 are NATO countries the last time I looked. The other non-NATO countries are Serbia, Austria, and Ukraine.

The fact you didn't even read the link or know what countries are in NATO makes it pointless to even discuss with you what the intentions of the alliance are.

[Roof-Daddy]

Falling down stairs is a good start.

Hopefully the piece of ####s next fall is out of a 5 story high window.

[mivdo]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Falling down stairs is a good start.

Hopefully the piece of ####s next fall is out of a 5 story high window.

Me personally, I hope its Putin that falls out of a 5 story window.

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1599026600917729281

[Huntingwhale]

Just heard some rather unsettling news from my wife. There is a video posted on one of her Telegram channels that shows the street where her family's apartment is and the entire street is completely destroyed. There were apparently a bunch of UA soldiers stationed there over the past few weeks and the Russians have been targeting that street with shelling. Last night their apartment was destroyed. Trying to find a way to post the video, but we can clearly see in the video her family's apartment in ruins along with the entire street.

As upset as her and her Mom are right now, we are all EXTREMELY thankful that the entire family is evacuated and safe in Poland right now. Today could have been a very very bad day if they hadn't been able to escape a few months ago. Crazy to think I myself was in that apartment in 2020.

[activeStick]

Read that Biden and Putin may be meeting soon to discuss ending the war. Fantastic news if true.

[Mr.Coffee]

I love how it’s a meeting between Putin and a country not involved. So American. Like, does Zelensky at least get a briefing of the meeting?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Read that Biden and Putin may be meeting soon to discuss ending the war. Fantastic news if true.

But only if he's serious about ending his invasion.

President Biden said that he is prepared to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin if he indicates he is interested in ending his country’s war with Ukraine. But Biden added: “He hasn’t done that yet.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...obama-georgia/

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I love how it’s a meeting between Putin and a country not involved. So American. Like, does Zelensky at least get a briefing of the meeting?

It's probably more of a negotiation to end American support in exchange for a peace deal. Ukraine will then have to decide whether to accept the peace deal or go at it without continued support.

[nik-]

Russia is desperate to turn this into a meeting between them and the US. Basically lends huge credence to their internal messaging about this being a war between them and NATO. Massive misstep on the part of Biden here.

[driveway]

The pre-condition has to be agreement to withdraw to pre-invasion lines. I could see the US be prepared to put enormous pressure on Ukraine to accept the loss of Crimea, if it gets Russia out of the rest of Ukraine, and brings the war to an end without use of WMDs or the involvement of NATO.

Would be a huge boon to a Biden 2024 Presidential run. “I beat Russia without putting a single boot on the ground” is a pretty fantastic election ad.

Personally I hope they keep kicking Russia’s ass back all the way to pre-2014 borders, but I can see the calculus the people in Biden’s office would be making.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by driveway

The pre-condition has to be agreement to withdraw to pre-invasion lines. I could see the US be prepared to put enormous pressure on Ukraine to accept the loss of Crimea, if it gets Russia out of the rest of Ukraine, and brings the war to an end without use of WMDs or the involvement of NATO.

Would be a huge boon to a Biden 2024 Presidential run. “I beat Russia without putting a single boot on the ground” is a pretty fantastic election ad.

Personally I hope they keep kicking Russia’s ass back all the way to pre-2014 borders, but I can see the calculus the people in Biden’s office would be making.

Why would Ukraine agree to that though? Any ceasefire simply gives Russia the ability to restock for further aggression, which is their whole MO. You can't take any promises made by Putin at face value. And taking Crimea away from them removes one of Russia's largest staging areas, which might mean the difference between a peace that last decades vs 5-10 years before Russia invades again

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Why would Ukraine agree to that though? Any ceasefire simply gives Russia the ability to restock for further aggression, which is their whole MO. You can't take any promises made by Putin at face value. And taking Crimea away from them removes one of Russia's largest staging areas, which might mean the difference between a peace that last decades vs 5-10 years before Russia invades again

Russia gets Crimea, Ukraine joins NATO, Americans' provide Ukraine with full armament.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by nik-

Russia is desperate to turn this into a meeting between them and the US. Basically lends huge credence to their internal messaging about this being a war between them and NATO. Massive misstep on the part of Biden here.

That's exactly what it is. It's all 100% show. There is no ultimate plan for Putin/Russia to come to the negotiating table in good faith. They are blaring back home that they are fighting NATO because it's shameful for them to be losing to Ukraine. Putin knows that Biden/US will likely turn down the meeting, and Putin can turn back to his population and preach how they tried their best but the big bad West refuses to negotiate.

Putin likes to pretend that Russia is a big player on the world stage. By having a seat at the table with the US, they are "hanging with the big boys".

All showmanship here and no good will planned on Russia's part. Ukraine just needs to keep doing what it is doing and keep taking out the Orc trash. Support won't stop for Ukraine at this point, at any time.

[FlameOn]

Russia's already violated two sovereignty treaties and their own leaked internal memos (confirmed by their top propagandists on state TV) said they would take any ceasefire as an opportunity to rearm and reinvade anyways. Unless there is some kind of full NATO membership involved here for the loss of Crimea as well as armed NATO patrols of civilian shipments in the Black Sea, there is no ceasefire for Ukraine that would possibly justify the loss of security/economic damage of another guaranteed invasion.

If anything Russia should lose Crimea and the Sevestopol naval base as a consequence of their aggression on top of Ukraine joining NATO. Russia should not have the ability to hold the world's food supply hostage nor should they be rewarded at all for any gains made through military aggression.

Sadly Putin would rather send another 100K conscripts to their deaths than accept terms like that. The issue will have to be forced on him then with so many military defeats and domestic issues from dead mobiks he can't ignore the situation at home.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Russia's already violated two sovereignty treaties and their own leaked internal memos (confirmed by their top propagandists on state TV) said they would take any ceasefire as an opportunity to rearm and reinvade anyways. Unless there is some kind of full NATO membership involved here for the loss of Crimea as well as armed NATO patrols of civilian shipments in the Black Sea, there is no ceasefire for Ukraine that would possibly justify the loss of security/economic damage of another guaranteed invasion.

If anything Russia should lose Crimea and the Sevestopol naval base as a consequence of their aggression on top of Ukraine joining NATO. Russia should not have the ability to hold the world's food supply hostage nor should they be rewarded at all for any gains made through military aggression.

Sadly Putin would rather send another 100K conscripts to their deaths than accept terms like that. The issue will have to be forced on him then with so many military defeats and domestic issues from dead mobiks he can't ignore the situation at home.

After all the death and destruction that Russia has wrought, and the postion Ukraine finds themselves in regards to the momentum of the war, I simply don't see the Ukrainians pushing for anything less than Russia incapacitated and out of Ukraine entirely. As you say, if given an inch, they've taken a mile and kept going. This is existential so no half solutions will work here. Russia has been a major power for some time, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable that it continues. Putin is willing to waste all blood and treasure to avoid the outcome of losing this war so he sees it as existential too. The only real outcomes possible are complete subjugation of Ukraine or regime change in Russia and full withdrawal. Neither will come from negotiation

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Why would Ukraine agree to that though? Any ceasefire simply gives Russia the ability to restock for further aggression, which is their whole MO. You can't take any promises made by Putin at face value. And taking Crimea away from them removes one of Russia's largest staging areas, which might mean the difference between a peace that last decades vs 5-10 years before Russia invades again

True...but...and I'm just spitballing here, but Russia's Armed Forces are decimated for a Generation. They lost the Mystique of being the 'Big Red Bear' and they'll have no experienced leadership for decades or experienced soldiers.

Not to mention that the inherent corruption within their systems probably isnt going anywhere so their armed forces arent likely to get any better, especially considering that they're going to be in no economic position to re-arm, in addition to the fact that it also gives Ukraine the opportunity to be ready and further by the time Russia ever has the opportunity to be the aggressor again Putin will be dead and the specter of the USSR should be gone.

This was a surprise and the Ukrainians are dummying them, if they were armed, supplied and prepared? No chance, because everything I said about the Russians? The opposite is true for Ukraine. They're going to have a Generation of experienced and battle-hardened soldiers and leadership. This is Russia's shot.

[activeStick]

I can't understand the desire to keep the war going. Any continuation means more death of innocent people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, full stop. I look at it from the perspective of if I had family there - stop the war.