2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Kaapo Kakko put up 40 points in 82 games at the tender age of 22 years old, playing just over 15 minutes per game. How many players that age have a 40-point season under their belt?

Better question would be how many 2nd overall picks don't get 40 points by age 21 not 22?

For me if you can't get points on one the top scoring teams there's a problem somewhere, Is he a bust? maybe or it could be he just needs a new home but he's not worth what Kuzmenko could bring at the deadline.

Rags probably would take a middling prospect for him just to get his $2.4m off the books, the flames can facilitate.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Better question would be how many 2nd overall picks don't get 40 points by age 21 not 22?

For me if you can't get points on one the top scoring teams there's a problem somewhere, Is he a bust? maybe or it could be he just needs a new home but he's not worth what Kuzmenko could bring at the deadline.

Rags probably would take a middling prospect for him just to get his $2.4m off the books, the flames can facilitate.

You're not picking up Kakko for what he is now, you're picking him up for what he'll be in the next few years. In 2022-23, when he put up 40 points, he hardly got any PP time either- with only 3 PP points.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sandman

You're not picking up Kakko for what he is now, you're picking him up for what he'll be in the next few years. In 2022-23, when he put up 40 points, he hardly got any PP time either- with only 3 PP points.

But yet he followed it up with 19 pts which is more of his average over 5 seasons, I don't think anyone knows what he'll be in the future which is why he's not worth much.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

But yet he followed it up with 19 pts which is more of his average over 5 seasons, I don't think anyone knows what he'll be in the future which is why he's not worth much.

Saying that his average output is 19 points is misleading.

This past season, he had 19 points in 61 games, for a ppg of .31. Prorated over an 82-game schedule, that's 25 points and 17 goals. I know, not great.

In 2021-22, he had 18 points in 43 games, for a ppg of .42. Prorated over an 82-game schedule, that's 34 points. Not bad for a 22 yo, and ahead of Laf.

In 2020-21, he had 17 points in 48 games, for a ppg of .35. Prorated over an 82-game schedule, that's 29 points. Just behind Laf's .37 ppg.

He was getting better every year, and hit 40 points in 2022-23. He should've had another breakout this season if injuries hadn't derailed him. I doubt there's a GM in the league that wouldn't give up a player like Kuz for a young prospect like KK. Just my opinion.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Better question would be how many 2nd overall picks don't get 40 points by age 21 not 22?

For me if you can't get points on one the top scoring teams there's a problem somewhere, Is he a bust? maybe or it could be he just needs a new home but he's not worth what Kuzmenko could bring at the deadline.

Rags probably would take a middling prospect for him just to get his $2.4m off the books, the flames can facilitate.

If true a deal would already be done. Either with the Flames or someone else.
A Bennett-ish return is probably more reasonable. Which was a 2nd round prospect and 2nd round pick.

[Lanny_McDonald]

If the Flames are dealing with the Rangers I think a prospect on the back end close to jumping would be more to their liking. They appear to be thin in this regard so a guy with the potential to step in may be to their liking. Poirier, Solo, or Kuz along with a pick may get Kakko done. If I were the Rangers I'd take Poirier and Colorado's 2nd and be really excited. I think Poirier is going to make the jump this season and surprise a lot of people.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If the Flames are dealing with the Rangers I think a prospect on the back end close to jumping would be more to their liking. They appear to be thin in this regard so a guy with the potential to step in may be to their liking. Poirier, Solo, or Kuz along with a pick may get Kakko done. If I were the Rangers I'd take Poirier and Colorado's 2nd and be really excited. I think Poirier is going to make the jump this season and surprise a lot of people.

From a progression POV, I'm not sure the Flames should trade Poirier for KK straight across.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Sandman

He’s 23, and has a 40-point season under his belt. Way too early to call him a bust.

One 40 point season in 5 years from a 2nd overall pick is horrible.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

One 40 point season in 5 years from a 2nd overall pick is horrible.

Puljujuarvi also had two seasons where he scored at a 37 point pace and a 46 point pace over 82 games. But then he sort of fell off a bit. Both those seasons happened in his first 5 years after the draft.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

One 40 point season in 5 years from a 2nd overall pick is horrible.

Eh a 4th overall that couldn’t crack 40 points seems to be doing ok in Florida.

[Royle9]

I can assure you that NYR are still trying to leverage his draft position and pedigree for value, and teams aren’t willing to pay a high price.

[The Fonz]

Assuming Kuzmenko is worth a 1st at the deadline, which would you rather have - Kakko, or a 1st round pick in the mid to late 20s?

I take Kakko there.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Assuming Kuzmenko is worth a 1st at the deadline, which would you rather have - Kakko, or a 1st round pick in the mid to late 20s?

I take Kakko there.

I don't think he's worth a 1st at the deadline... probably a 2nd IMO.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Assuming Kuzmenko is worth a 1st at the deadline, which would you rather have - Kakko, or a 1st round pick in the mid to late 20s?

I take Kakko there.

It’s debatable he’ll even be worth a 1st as well. That’s his peak value and will need to be a PPG at deadline to get it imo.

[SuperMatt18]

One dimensional offensive wingers rarely even get 1sts at the deadline...my guess is Kuzmenko would be worth more like a 2nd + prospect.

He'd need to be on a 40 goal and PPG pace to maybe return a 1st IMO.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

One dimensional offensive wingers rarely even get 1sts at the deadline...my guess is Kuzmenko would be worth more like a 2nd + prospect.

He'd need to be on a 40 goal and PPG pace to maybe return a 1st IMO.

Agreed. Teams play premiums for centres and top four defencemen but rarely for wingers. Guentzel was by far the best winger available at the TDL (and even the best forward) and the package he returned included a conditional 1st round pick that ended up being a 2nd round pick. It’s become rare for rental wingers to return first round picks.

[The Fonz]

If his value is a 2nd, then it makes the Kakko route a no-brainer.

[Vinny01]

If you could get Kakko for Kuzmenko straight up you start the car but the cap won’t work for the Rangers and that would be a pretty big sell low for NY. The flames could burn through their second retention slot and eat half the money and possibly need to add more but that would be a great deal for the Flames to pursue.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Assuming Kuzmenko is worth a 1st at the deadline, which would you rather have - Kakko, or a 1st round pick in the mid to late 20s?

I take Kakko there.

Absolutely the 1st. It's a reclamation project vs another 1st round bullet in the chamber that we've been successfully stockpiling lately. Bullet in the chamber.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

If his value is a 2nd, then it makes the Kakko route a no-brainer.

I'd still go a second, honestly. Bullets in the chamber, the Dallas way. Yes, one second round pick isn't likely to be better than Kakko, but the successful rebuilds just load up the chamber and out of 6 2nd round picks in two years you get your two top 6 producing forwards.

Thing is you don't know which 2nd round picks of your arsenal turn out, that's why you load the chamber as full as you can. Might be your own teams pick and the acquired one turns to nothing or that afterthought trade getting rid of a Baertchi turns into a core, stud defenseman.

I'm all about loading the chamber right now over a reclamation project, and yes I'm aware they sometimes work (Bennett), but typically those high first round pick forwards that are still struggling to show anything 5 years into their NHL career aren't going to be worth what you're going to pay for their draft status and pedigree.