Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think this opinion would be considered unpopular but if this season continues on the same path I explore the following:
This season- Move Brodie, Hamonic, Frolik, Jankowski for the best futures based package you can get.
This summer- the 2 players that should be shopped and moved for the highest return should be Giordano and Gaudreau. Massive changes by moving the Captain and the best player but it sends a message and helps the team reset. Tkachuk gets the keys to the franchise and is now on the first line and captain.

With the assets from the rental and Johnny/Gio deals Treliving could be in a prime spot to acquire another start player and restock the prospect cupboard. Retool and be back in the mix next season.

I agree with the ‘this season’ portion except to say that Brodie, Frolik and Jankowski absolutely should have been moved this past off season. We all know he tried, and failed, but that is no excuse to not find other options. Their value has dropped off a cliff since then and the return is gonna be bad.

This summer, I’m not on the trade Johnny train. If I’m moving someone it would be Monahan. Move Lindholm to center and hope he becomes the player we so desperately need. I’m not totally against trading Gaudreau but I’d prefer to see Monahan moved first. Gio I think we’d all be so disappointed with the return that I think he’s better to just keep and hope he can be the leadership the next stage of this team needs. Tkachuk will have his time as captain soon enough, no need to hurry that imo. I also am trading Bennett because I think he is the personification for why this current rebuild didn’t work. Bennett not becoming even 75% of what we needed when he was drafted is the biggest reason we are where we are imo. Bennett develops and I don’t think there’s a chance we would have signed Neal etc etc.

I also wonder about Hanifin. He’s still young but he hasn’t been showing much improvement in my eye. Still a negative relative corsi player, light on offence, prone to gaffes. Young, sure, but also this might be what he is. And if it is then that contract ain’t great and he still has ‘5th overall’ shine to him, so maybe a move sooner than later would be prudent.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think this opinion would be considered unpopular but if this season continues on the same path I explore the following:
This season- Move Brodie, Hamonic, Frolik, Jankowski for the best futures based package you can get.
This summer- the 2 players that should be shopped and moved for the highest return should be Giordano and Gaudreau. Massive changes by moving the Captain and the best player but it sends a message and helps the team reset. Tkachuk gets the keys to the franchise and is now on the first line and captain.

With the assets from the rental and Johnny/Gio deals Treliving could be in a prime spot to acquire another start player and restock the prospect cupboard. Retool and be back in the mix next season.

Giordano in the summer? I think you’ll be very disappointed with the offers on that deal. He should be moved at the trade deadline if we are out of the race.

Tkachuk seems a bit immature to have the keys to the franchise. Those keys are in Monahan’s jeans and will stay there.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Corral

Giordano in the summer? I think you’ll be very disappointed with the offers on that deal. He should be moved at the trade deadline if we are out of the race.

Tkachuk seems a bit immature to have the keys to the franchise. Those keys are in Monahan’s jeans and will stay there.

Don’t think I’m handing the keys to the guy who goes long stretches of playing very poorly and hasn’t been much good in crunch time when I have a consistent top performer like Tkachuk who already seems like the leader of the team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Corral

Giordano in the summer? I think you’ll be very disappointed with the offers on that deal. He should be moved at the trade deadline if we are out of the race.

Tkachuk seems a bit immature to have the keys to the franchise. Those keys are in Monahan’s jeans and will stay there.

Disagree on the Monahan/Tkachuk take.

I do agree with moving Gio at the deadline if that increases the return.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

I used to think Sean Monahan was the best player from the 2013 draft. That obviously changed last spring.

Barkov’s been a more complete player than Monahan the whole time. A few us tried to tell y’all about it but many didn’t believe.

Jones may have passed Monahan too in terms of value/importance.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

I used to think Sean Monahan was the best player from the 2013 draft. That obviously changed last spring.

Mackinnon? Guys that would be ahead of Monahan in a 2013 re-draft:

Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones, Morrissey, Nurse, Lindholm and maybe Theodore.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones I agree with.
The rest? Nope.
At this stage
- Monahan has the most goals of his draft class
- Second most points

That has to count for something.
Nurse?
come on.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones I agree with.
The rest? Nope.
At this stage
- Monahan has the most goals of his draft class
- Second most points

That has to count for something.
Nurse?
come on.

Have you seen Nurse' grit index though?

It's off the charts.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones I agree with.
The rest? Nope.
At this stage
- Monahan has the most goals of his draft class
- Second most points

That has to count for something.
Nurse?
come on.

Presumably you'd be basing it on who is likely to have the better career going forward.

That easily puts MacKinnon, Jones and Barkov above him.

Morrisey would be ahead of him. I would keep Lindholm before Monahan, but it would be close.

Nurse, nope.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Don’t think I’m handing the keys to the guy who goes long stretches of playing very poorly and hasn’t been much good in crunch time when I have a consistent top performer like Tkachuk who already seems like the leader of the team.

IIRC Monahan was one of the more consistent performers against Anaheim in the POs. 4 goals, 5 points in 4 games. And he has been really good for GWG, GTG, etc. in his career. Last POs he had only 2 points. But Tkachuk only had 3 so I'm not sure that the jury is in on him for "crunch time". He's had an OK run this year with GTG and GWG.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Mackinnon? Guys that would be ahead of Monahan in a 2013 re-draft:

Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones, Morrissey, Nurse, Lindholm and maybe Theodore.

Nurse... your troll is showing.

[savardandjokinen]

I'd say a 2013 re draft would look like
Mackinnon
Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Then lots of guys like Lindholm, Horvat, Morrissey, Nurse, Mantha, Theodore, Ristolainen, Domi, Drouin, etc

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

I'd say a 2013 re draft would look like
Mackinnon
Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Then lots of guys like Lindholm, Horvat, Morrissey, Nurse, Mantha, Theodore, Ristolainen, Domi, Drouin, etc

Agreed. No one would take Lindholm over Monahan in a redraft, much less any of the others. He's got such a small track record of success, and it came on Monahan's wing. Monahan is still first in goals and second in points on that draft.

Even Jones is iffy - he's obviously got tools but I wouldn't say he's outperformed Monahan to this point, and he had to be traded to really get going. Barkov - yes because of his two way play and career arc, and obviously Mackinnon.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I’d take Lindholm over Monahan in a redraft. So I guess “no one” would be a bit of hyperbole.

[dammage79]

Monahan is still #3 for me from that draft. And he was #1 for a couple of years until Barkov settled in. Even MacKinnon wasnt able to keep up for the first couple.of years in scoring.

Lindholm is like #5 or 6 for me. He hasnt accomplished nearly as much as Monahan has in the same timeframes. I love that we have both now though, and I was on the Lindholm train at that draft.

Man, Monahan has been a freaking rock for this team. Collectively, we are far too hard on the players we cheer for in Flames land. Far too hard. Continuously under valued in trades speculation, thrown under a bus or fired 8into the sun at the first sign of a bad game. Far too easy for us fans from the bleachers to be the jury.

[FlamesFanFromBC]

Unpopular Opinion:

The Flames should NOT fire Bill Peters and go against 100% of media opinions and a majority of twitter, forums & social media opinions.

Let Bill issue a public apology for past mistakes.

[Jiri Hrdina]

^
/thread.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I’d take Lindholm over Monahan in a redraft. So I guess “no one” would be a bit of hyperbole.

Sorry, I meant “no one who does this for a living”.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sorry, I meant “no one who does this for a living”.

Yeah I think you’d be very wrong on that one. I’d bet there’s definitely scouts and GMs that would take Lindholm over Monahan based on the past 1.5 seasons.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yeah I think you’d be very wrong on that one. I’d bet there’s definitely scouts and GMs that would take Lindholm over Monahan based on the past 1.5 seasons.

Well, we disagree. Lindholm has scored less in every season and plays a lesser position. he's arguably better defensively, but we don't even know that, in the context of the different roles. Defence as a centre is way harder.

Even if Lindholom scores more this year, with a crystal ball the GMs would take the guy who's been a scoring machine every year for 6 years versus the guy who only blossomed after being traded, and who cracked the 16 goal hurdle only last year.

Is he having a better year than Monahan this year? In goals, yes. But GMs aren't so shortsighted as to think this year is representative of either player.