2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Groot

Vezina, Jack Adams, and Selke or bust

When he wins all those and not the Calder…I tell ya…

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wonder what we could for Zayne on the market. A couple of 3rd rounders?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by blankall

If you're banking on getting a generational talent to win a cup, then even with 10 years of tanking, the odds are firmly against you. The odds of getting a #1 overall are only 25.5%, even if you finish very last, which is unlikely, so your likely looking at 13.5-8.5% odds at #1. Then, that generational or even franchise level player doesn't come along every year.

You could tank for 10 years straight, end up with a single #1 overall pick, then draft Lafreniere, Slafkovsky, or Hischier instead of Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon.

At a certain point you do have to build a good team. If you get lucky enough to have those 3-4 core pieces to build around, the rest is built outside of the draft. From your examples, Tampa didn't have that prolonged rebuild, people are talking about. Colorado did their best not to have a prolonged rebuild.

Mcdavid, Crosby, Lemeuix, Gretzky, Orr, Bedard IMO are generational.

MacKinnon is every bit as good as McDavid but wasn't projected as generational. Barkov has a cup, Eichel has a cup, Tkachuk has a cup, Kucherov was on my list too as a guy that gets it done every year in the playoffs. We don't need Mcdavid to have elite players.

The way some of our depth guys played over the years in the playoffs, if we had a true elite 1st line we could have won. Backlund's line most years is very good in the playoffs, young Sam Bennett was as well. Gaudreau was not. He's not elite, just very good all-star caliber, just not in with the guys I mentioned and can't be the go-to guy on a cup winning team.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Mcdavid, Crosby, Lemeuix, Gretzky, Orr, Bedard IMO are generational.

MacKinnon is every bit as good as McDavid but wasn't projected as generational. Barkov has a cup, Eichel has a cup, Tkachuk has a cup, Kucherov was on my list too as a guy that gets it done every year in the playoffs. We don't need Mcdavid to have elite players.

The way some of our depth guys played over the years in the playoffs, if we had a true elite 1st line we could have won. Backlund's line most years is very good in the playoffs, young Sam Bennett was as well. Gaudreau was not. He's not elite, just very good all-star caliber, just not in with the guys I mentioned and can't be the go-to guy on a cup winning team.

Correct.

Chicago won 3 Stanley Cups with zero generational players.

What they did have was 4 HOF calibre players (Kane, Toews, Hossa and Keith) who were all able to up their play in the playoffs. Add in a host of very good players like Sharp, Bollan. Hjammerson, Seabrook et all.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Correct.

Chicago won 3 Stanley Cups with zero generational players.

What they did have was 4 HOF calibre players (Kane, Toews, Hossa and Keith) who were all able to up their play in the playoffs. Add in a host of very good players like Sharp, Bollan. Hjammerson, Seabrook et all.

And they didn’t even really have a great goalie… certainly was never a critical piece for them.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Correct.

Chicago won 3 Stanley Cups with zero generational players.

Very true.

And the moment they started paying Kane and Toews like they were generational players was the moment they stopped winning.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Correct.

Chicago won 3 Stanley Cups with zero generational players.

What they did have was 4 HOF calibre players (Kane, Toews, Hossa and Keith) who were all able to up their play in the playoffs. Add in a host of very good players like Sharp, Bollan. Hjammerson, Seabrook et all.

Vegas as well. Stone, Eichel are maybe HOF - we'll see. Petrangelo, Marchessault, Karlsson - just very good.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Very true.

And the moment they started paying Kane and Toews like they were generational players was the moment they stopped winning.

They got $10.5M, which was maybe $1M too much.

What cost them was their supporting staff started regressing, like Bolland, Sharp etc.

They really fell victim to having too many good players and couldn't afford to keep them. The salaries and Kane and Toews contributed just a bit. They were in deep regardless.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They got $10.5M, which was maybe $1M too much.

What cost them was their supporting staff started regressing, like Bolland, Sharp etc.

They really fell victim to having too many good players and couldn't afford to keep them. The salaries and Kane and Toews contributed just a bit. They were in deep regardless.

Or maybe Stan Bowman happened to them.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They got $10.5M, which was maybe $1M too much.

What cost them was their supporting staff started regressing, like Bolland, Sharp etc.

They really fell victim to having too many good players and couldn't afford to keep them. The salaries and Kane and Toews contributed just a bit. They were in deep regardless.

It's not very realistic in a cap era to expect more than 3 cups in a short window. At some point too many players get paid for that success, players start to age out and extra games take a toll on players.

3 in 6 is still the best we have seen.

[jayswin]

Yeah, discussing "what went wrong for them to fall off" with teams like Chicago and LA after multiple Cup wins is kind of silly. They rebuilt through some painful years, they rose to contenders, they won Cups and then they fell off as the building cycle always does. The end.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Mcdavid, Crosby, Lemeuix, Gretzky, Orr, Bedard IMO are generational.

MacKinnon is every bit as good as McDavid but wasn't projected as generational. Barkov has a cup, Eichel has a cup, Tkachuk has a cup, Kucherov was on my list too as a guy that gets it done every year in the playoffs. We don't need Mcdavid to have elite players.

The way some of our depth guys played over the years in the playoffs, if we had a true elite 1st line we could have won. Backlund's line most years is very good in the playoffs, young Sam Bennett was as well. Gaudreau was not. He's not elite, just very good all-star caliber, just not in with the guys I mentioned and can't be the go-to guy on a cup winning team.

That's really luck of the draw. Drafting a MacKinnon level player is very difficult to do. I do the Flames could have won with Gaudreau if they'd done a better job of structuring the team and Markstrom hadn't gone through that phase of awful play.

[Badgers Nose]

Pointless to compare Johnny with franchise players. We didn’t tank to get him. He was a winning lottery ticket. That happens once every ten years if you are lucky. Measure everything else the flames did without him and it gives you a more accurate picture.

Instead of thanking our lucky stars we got him, some fans have to muddy the waters with these comparisons.

Had BT been more patient, Johnny would have been the icing on the cake.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They got $10.5M, which was maybe $1M too much.

What cost them was their supporting staff started regressing, like Bolland, Sharp etc.

They really fell victim to having too many good players and couldn't afford to keep them. The salaries and Kane and Toews contributed just a bit. They were in deep regardless.

Up to 2015, they did a pretty good job of cycling expensive players out and cheaper replacements in. Having $21 million locked in for two players really hurt their ability to do that.

I was saying at the time that if sentiment was not a factor, they should have picked one of the two to keep and let the other one walk. One team couldn't really afford both under the cap.

[Jason14h]

Forgetting to qualify players didn’t help either haha

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2009/...n-takes-blame/

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by Groot

What if he works like crazy this summer, adds 10 lbs, outplays other vets at camp and proves he is better suited developing in the NHL and you send him down anyway? Kills his confidence, wastes a year dominating kids where the year-long goal is something he already accomplished last year. He's frustrated with the team and forces a trade as early as possible. Making up hyperbolic stories doesn't serve anyone's interest.



We don't know what's best for his development but the organization will make that decision accordingly. Nobody knows yet, not even the organization. So whatever they decide will be best for his development because they will make a calculated choice based on the player and his performance. That's what's best for his development. And him developing to his fullest is what's best for the team.

What historically is the most prudent path for a D man, play in the nhl as an 18 yo or develop in junior for a year or two?

[Sofa GM]

Just looking at the cap and roster situations for all the teams and are the Penguins ever a mess. Do they accept they are done and rebuild or try to take a run at Laine or something like that for a last outside shot. They have a big tear down coming in a year or two. Right now they have 52/50 contracts, and about $2.5MM in cap space… are they are potential trade partner.

To Penguins,
2025 2nd (from Col)
Rory Kerins

To Flames
Kevin Hayes
Jesse Puljujarvi
Brandon Yager

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Just looking at the cap and roster situations for all the teams and are the Penguins ever a mess. Do they accept they are done and rebuild or try to take a run at Laine or something like that for a last outside shot. They have a big tear down coming in a year or two. Right now they have 52/50 contracts, and about $2.5MM in cap space… are they are potential trade partner.

To Penguins,
2025 2nd (from Col)
Rory Kerins

To Flames
Kevin Hayes
Jesse Puljujarvi
Brandon Yager

Barf!🤮

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Teams focus on MacKinnon, Macdvid, Kucherov and so on as well. Our top guys never produced and IMO I never thought Johnny was going to get it done in the playoffs. Tkachuk was bad for us in the playoffs too, but in Florida he has been great.

You can make a case Backlund has been our best player in the playoffs. If we had true elite players and guys like him behind them, we would have been a cup contender.

In theory having Johnny and Monahan and Bennett and Tkachuk as lines seems like it should work but even if Tkachuk and Bennett did what they did in Florida not so sure Johnny and Monahan would have been elite in the playoffs. Johnny seemed easier to shut down. Johnny definitely wasn't the guy to build around.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

And they didn’t even really have a great goalie… certainly was never a critical piece for them.

Crawford was outstanding in third 3rd win I would say.

But that team was led by their star players, especially Keith.