Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This isn’t any less vague, though, so the point doesn’t stand. The point needs an actual foundation to stand. The entire argument that this is more than a blunder or an embarrassment seems to be based on references to these intangible, abstract things without anybody being able to actually express how it actually does harm in reality (outside of harming our reputation by making us look stupid).

It’s in the news, so what? Are the only things that make international news things that do harm? No. Are national embarrassments enough to make the international news? Yes.

Ukraine has some real connections to neo-Nazi groups, including some directly involved in fighting this war. This is no secret, it is also not so easily explained away by context, yet we still have a general understanding that this war is unjust and the pretences for this invasion false. But, we’re supposed to believe that this situation, easily explained away by the context, does real harm. The obvious question is: what harm? and how?

If that can’t be answered with anything but a vague “people are talking about it” or “it’s a bad look” then what?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rus...ment-1.6980638

This highlights how Russia is using this huge mistake to try to help their cause.

Can’t speak to how effective it is, but they are certainly using this.

From the CBC article;

Disinformation experts warn Russia is casting a wide net with falsehoods about Canada, Ukraine and Nazism after the incident, in order to question the legitimacy of supporting Ukraine's push against the Russian invasion.

James L. Turk, the director at the Centre for Free Expression at Toronto Metropolitan University, said Russian messaging is meant to create more sympathy for the invasion, "whether that is non-aligned governments, whether it's people in Western countries or elsewhere who don't understand the situation well."

Turk said Russia is looking for "anything that gives them some legitimacy for the horrendous war that they're launching against the Ukrainians."

[Locke]

Ah yes, James L. Turk....James T. Kirk's less successful cousin.

[Monahammer]

Mister turkleton!

[redforever]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Yeah, I don't know why people seem to think guests have to undergo some kind of deep character study to get into the Parliament building. Obviously they would screen people for weapons and whatnot, but once you've established they have nothing dangerous, what risk is a 98 year old going to present?

No, not routinely, but I think when someone like Zelensky is in the Chamber making an address, more prudence should be followed. The man is heading a war against the Russians and has to worry about safety every waking moment.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rus...ment-1.6980638

This highlights how Russia is using this huge mistake to try to help their cause.

Can’t speak to how effective it is, but they are certainly using this.

From the CBC article;

Part of my point is that they use everything, true or not, with or without context. They’ve used things that are a lot more directly questionable or concerning than what amounts to an embarrassing mistake, and twisted things that nobody here would find concerning or questionable into justification. Just the fact that it’s being use doesn’t mean it’s doing “damage” or having any impact on anyone outside of the already bought-in and gullible.

The propaganda machine has been running for a very long time in Russia, and if the degree to which we view things negatively (or positively) is based on whether it can be used to fuel that machine, regardless of its truth, then that’s basically saying that they run the show, and they dictate how we should feel about things and how we should react to things. Not for me.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Part of my point is that they use everything, true or not, with or without context. They’ve used things that are a lot more directly questionable or concerning than what amounts to an embarrassing mistake, and twisted things that nobody here would find concerning or questionable into justification. Just the fact that it’s being use doesn’t mean it’s doing “damage” or having any impact on anyone outside of the already bought-in and gullible.

The propaganda machine has been running for a very long time in Russia, and if the degree to which we view things negatively (or positively) is based on whether it can be used to fuel that machine, regardless of its truth, then that’s basically saying that they run the show, and they dictate how we should feel about things and how we should react to things. Not for me.

Come on.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by peter12

Come on.

No?

[#-3]

I just reject the idea that this was a huge mistake. In the grand scheme of stupid political stuff this should be a nothingburger. Some people clapped for the wrong guy, everyone agrees they did not want to applaud him once they knew a little bit more about him.

It's a stupid scandal.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Yeah, I don't know why people seem to think guests have to undergo some kind of deep character study to get into the Parliament building. Obviously they would screen people for weapons and whatnot, but once you've established they have nothing dangerous, what risk is a 98 year old going to present?

Getting into the building is different than being honored. I've been in the building and it's just regular security screening. If he doesn't have a weapon he isn't a physical threat. But getting honored on the floor of the house is a bigger deal than watching from the gallery and recipients should be vetted at least a bit. "Fought the Russians in the '40s" should ring alarm bells to anyone who passed Social Studies 30...

And I do think there is potential for specific harm here. This will feed the Russian propaganda machine. And the Ukrainian side is largely dependent on Western (especially US) aid. If Biden wins re-election that's not an issue. But if the Republicans win the amount of their base that believes the Russian propaganda could make a difference to the amount of support/munitions/arms they get.

[Looch City]

What ever happened to India vs Canada? That scandal was soo much more interesting.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Part of my point is that they use everything, true or not, with or without context. They’ve used things that are a lot more directly questionable or concerning than what amounts to an embarrassing mistake, and twisted things that nobody here would find concerning or questionable into justification.

Well this was some pretty sweet material to use. Handed to them on a silver platter.

And it actually happened, it wasn’t “made up”.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Looch City

What ever happened to India vs Canada? That scandal was soo much more interesting.

We don’t pay attention to scandals for more than a week. Then it’s on to the next one!

[rubecube]

Yet another conservative government demonstrating why giving the current brand of conservatives more power is a bad idea.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...licy-1.6981406

A Regina judge has ruled that the Saskatchewan government's naming and pronoun policy should be paused for the time being, but Premier Scott Moe says he'll use the notwithstanding clause to override it.

Moe, responding to today's injunction issued by a Regina Court of King's Bench Justice Michael Megaw, said he intends to recall the legislature Oct. 10 to "pass legislation to protect parents' rights."

"The default position should never be to keep a child's information from their parents."

Last month, the province announced that all students under 16 needed parental consent to change their names or pronouns.

Moe previously said he stands by the policy and that the province will do everything in its power to protect parental rights.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is no secret, it is also not so easily explained away by context, yet we still have a general understanding that this war is unjust and the pretences for this invasion false. But, we’re supposed to believe that this situation, easily explained away by the context, does real harm. The obvious question is: what harm? and how?

If that can’t be answered with anything but a vague “people are talking about it” or “it’s a bad look” then what?

We do. But the Russians don't.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/0...20in%20Ukraine.

But hopes of Russian grassroots opposition to the war were swiftly dashed. Indeed, public opinion polls have consistently shown overwhelming support (70 percent or higher) for what Moscow calls its “special military operation” in Ukraine. Contrary to expectations, Putin’s popularity has also seen a boost, similar to what happened in the immediate wake of the 2014 annexation of Crimea.
...
In focus group discussions, they pointedly call what is happening in Ukraine “the special operation.” This term makes sense to them because, as various participants outlined: “It’s not like we are taking anything [that isn’t ours]”; “We’re liberating [Ukraine] from Nazis and fascists”; or “That’s what Vladimir Vladimirovich [Putin] called it, and I trust him.”

The Russians believe they are liberating Ukraine from Nazi oppressors. Wondering why the majority of the western world has an issue with that is something the population struggles with. But then they hear about Canadians cheering on Nazis, of course the government is going to use that to help push the narrative. And the better the narrative, the more blood.

Who cares if it's going to fool some young testosterone fueled more-rash-than-critical-thinking kid? Well everyone when that kid ends up on the frontline.

Propaganda is the most powerful weapon. We handed them ammo on a silver platter.

[OptimalTates]

Also what's with the Nazi agreeing to do it in the first place? Like I'm sure he knew it would be discovered and he would be doing more harm than good to his former country for a couple seconds of applause. As controversial as it might be to say, but I don't think that Nazi is a very good person.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Also what's with the Nazi agreeing to do it in the first place? Like I'm sure he knew it would be discovered and he would be doing more harm than good to his former country for a couple seconds of applause. As controversial as it might be to say, but I don't think that Nazi is a very good person.

the guy is what, 98 years old?
he's some senile old coot who would probably agree to anything.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Also what's with the Nazi agreeing to do it in the first place? Like I'm sure he knew it would be discovered and he would be doing more harm than good to his former country for a couple seconds of applause. As controversial as it might be to say, but I don't think that Nazi is a very good person.

I heard it was his son that contacted the speaker of the house. Which also begs a lot of questions as well.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Which also begs a lot of questions as well.

That's not what that phrase means.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I heard it was his son that contacted the speaker of the house. Which also begs a lot of questions as well.

I'm sure your source is rock solid as usual

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by aaronck

I'm sure your source is rock solid as usual

You know better than that.


“ The speaker’s office said it was Hunka's son who contacted Rota's local office to see if it was possible if he could attend Zelenskyy’s speech.”

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internati...-man-103495112