The Blue Jays Thread: 2008 Season - Page 45 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Gozer · 07-30-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

So what's your excuse for Wells (29), Rios (27), Scutaro (32), Wilkerson (31), Overbay (31), and Mench (30)?

The average age for an MLBer is about 29 and I'm sure it's higher for batters since they tend to have longer careers than pitchers. All those players are in what should be their peak years and all are below career averages.

It's hilarious that you judge Gatson by not pulling a team 10+ games out of the division lead back into the race in just over 30 games.

I'll make this simple:
Gatson 19W, 14L = .576 Winning % (which is 4th in the MLB, 2nd in the division)
Gibbons 35W, 39L = .473 Winning %

No improvement there whatsoever, hey?

There was a little bump after a big change - same as an NHL team will go on a little run after a coaching change - as everyone is putting in extra effort.

The team has the exact same problems as they've had all season.

Gozer · 07-30-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinFlame

Zauns baby attitude is starting to piss me off. How can a guy who has been a career backup act like this to the organization that finally gave him a chance (more than one mind you) to be a starter.

DFA him and get one of our catching prospects up here. Our production out of the C spot is ghawd-awful. On top of that, the Jays have more catching prospects than the Flames have goalies.

moon · 07-30-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

So what's your excuse for Wells (29), Rios (27), Scutaro (32), Wilkerson (31), Overbay (31), and Mench (30)?

The average age for an MLBer is about 29 and I'm sure it's higher for batters since they tend to have longer careers than pitchers. All those players are in what should be their peak years and all are below career averages.

It's hilarious that you judge Gatson by not pulling a team 10+ games out of the division lead back into the race in just over 30 games.

I'll make this simple:
Gatson 19W, 14L = .576 Winning % (which is 4th in the MLB, 2nd in the division)
Gibbons 35W, 39L = .473 Winning %

No improvement there whatsoever, hey?

We have had this argument many times in this thread already but I will reiterate that Mench and Wilkerson are below average players so at their ages they are likely to see a bigger decline in their numbers and see that decline faster. There is a reason they were available in the season, people saw that they didn't have much left. It isn't a surprise that they are not good hitters.

Overbay has had seasons like this before. It isn't an anomaly. He is starting to shot that this type of season is likely. Again it isn't a big surprise looking at his history.

Vernon has a few very good seasons that help to boost his career averages but again like Overbay has had some duds as well. This isn't a single bump in a Pujols like consistent career for Wells.

Rios has played what 2-3 full seasons in the league and in none of those seasons was he a top hitter. He has yet to prove that he has great hitting ability so the fact that he struggles again should not be that much of a surprise. He doesn't have a track record of consistent production.

Scutaro just isn't that good of a hitter. Not sure why you expect much more him. He is giving the Jays about what they should really expect out of him.

Also factored in is the fact there is no hitter on the team that forces pictchers to take chances with other players. Who cares if a Jay is walked if there is no Ortiz, Manny, Arod, Pujols, Hamilton etc. to punish you for putting guys on base. Who cares if Rios gets a hit or even a HR if that is likely to to be one of the few runs they get. The way the line-up is put together also contributes to poorer results for the hitters, in my view, as it doesn't challenge pitchers or put them in tough spots.

The fact is that the Jays don't have anyone on the team that is a good enough hitter that their slumping shoudl be a surprise.

Cito has had a nice run since he came in. I never said that. I was just laughing at the idea that with him here the Jays are going to make a charge. Thre reality is that although more wins have come the Jays are nowhere near to competing for a play-off spot and in reality the overall fortunes of the team haven't changed much at all. It sure looks nice to the fans but really means squat in terms of play-offs.

Flickered Flame · 07-31-2008, 11:24 AM

According to the ESPN trade deadline blog, the Jays are now in talks with Pitts over Jason Bay. The deal would have outfield phenom Travis Snider as one of the pieces going to the Bucs.

JayP · 07-31-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

According to the ESPN trade deadline blog, the Jays are now in talks with Pitts over Jason Bay. The deal would have outfield phenom Travis Snider as one of the pieces going to the Bucs.

Can't complain with that. If Snider can turn out to be as good as Jason Bay the Jays will be very lucky.

It's a bit of strange move with Lind, Wells, and Rios all under contract moving forward.

Gozer · 07-31-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Can't complain with that. If Snider can turn out to be as good as Jason Bay the Jays will be very lucky.

It's a bit of strange move with Lind, Wells, and Rios all under contract moving forward.

I doubt I'd like a trade that cost us Snider.

JayP · 07-31-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I doubt I'd like a trade that cost us Snider.

Snider's high strikeout rate (~35%) while not being combined with a ridiculously high OBP is becoming a major concern for him at this point in his career.

Flickered Flame · 07-31-2008, 11:58 AM

Apparently the Jays are also in talks with the M's about Ibanez.

Machiavelli · 07-31-2008, 11:59 AM

Hopefully the Jays are also in talks with J. P. Ricciardi

JayP · 07-31-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

Apparently the Jays are also in talks with the M's about Ibanez.

Now that's a move I don't get.

Honestly though, I'd be happy if the Jays draw a line in the sand and pick a side - buyers or sellers. Every year they're in the exact same situation and every year they do absolutely nothing. And predictably they finish exactly where they were at the trade deadline. Even though I think it's stupid for them to be buyers it's a hell of a lot better than standing pat after so many years of doing so.

Gozer · 07-31-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Snider's high strikeout rate (~35%) while not being combined with a ridiculously high OBP is becoming a major concern for him at this point in his career.

That's why he's a prospect. And I'll take an Adam Dunn type on a rookie contract, our current DH strikes out twice a game as it is.

Pirates wanted Snider AND Marcum.

Gozer · 07-31-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Now that's a move I don't get.

Agreed, getting Ibanez would be brutal.

He's not a bad player, not at all, but a terrible decision.

Gozer · 07-31-2008, 12:45 PM

Snider is also ranked a top 10 prospect in baseball by every account I've read.

habernac · 08-01-2008, 09:15 PM

stupid Ryan. Blows the save and takes the loss, 9-8 Rangers final.

GirlySports · 08-01-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

stupid Ryan. Blows the save and takes the loss, 9-8 Rangers final.

Those weren't bad pitches that they hit.

Texas has been making these miracle comebacks all year

JayP · 08-01-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habernac

stupid Ryan. Blows the save and takes the loss, 9-8 Rangers final.

Gatson should've had Downs throwing in the pen as soon as he saw Ryan had no slider (and then replace him at the first sign of trouble). It's hard to get guys out with just a 90 MPH fastball. The key to Ryan's success is that great hard slider that throws hitters off balance.

ricoFlame · 08-01-2008, 09:23 PM

if your closer is throwing 89 mph, his control had better be spot on and his movement dead on. Ryan has neither right now. ugly.

GirlySports · 08-01-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Gatson should've had Downs throwing in the pen as soon as he saw Ryan had no slider (and then replace him at the first sign of trouble). It's hard to get guys out with just a 90 MPH fastball. The key to Ryan's success is that great hard slider that throws hitters off balance.

Downs pitched the 8th

Sylvanfan · 08-01-2008, 09:34 PM

Thats just a bad game to lose. Theres just something about that ball park that seems to haunt the Blue Jays. As bad as Texas' pitching is...I think they're now 2 and a half games ahead of Toronto. And this is a team who was projected to be last in their Division.

ricoFlame · 08-01-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Thats just a bad game to lose. Theres just something about that ball park that seems to haunt the Blue Jays. As bad as Texas' pitching is...I think they're now 2 and a half games ahead of Toronto. And this is a team who was projected to be last in their Division.

good point, the only time the jays seem to win in texas is when delgado hits three bombs in a game.