2020 NHL Entry Draft

[Jiri Hrdina]

Let's be clear though that at the time, Kidd was the clear and consensus #1 goalie. The Flames didn't go "off board" or do something unexpected by taking him over Brodeur or Potvin. Kidd was the "next franchise goalie" in that draft. Speaks to the challenge of projecting goalies - but I disagree with the notion that this was a Flames error.

[mrchristy31]

Below is a link to a great article in regards to draft odds. There are some interesting numbers.

https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/...s-by-position/

What I have concluded based on the article.
-Top 5 draft any position based on Best Player available.
-Top 15 draft any position based on Best Player available.
-Top 30 draft best forward available unless a D-man is clear favorite.
-Round 2 Look to draft goalie then forward
-Round 3 Look to draft Goalie then Defenseman
-Round 4-6 Draft best player regardless of postion
-Round 7 draft Dustin Wolf

[DomeFoam]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I just think the expectation of mid first round picks to deliver a franchise starter is unrealistic. Same goes for other positions so I don’t understand the added pressure.

Well if you draft Askarov at 5, which was the original discussion, would you not expect him to be the franchise starter? When guys like Rossi and Holtz are there? Skater talent that you likely won't be able to identify and draft in the later rounds because its a huge skater pool to select from compared to goalie pool.

History tells us that a couple goalies will be selected later in the draft as good or better than Askarov. Why not take your chances there in the later rounds instead of picking a Hunter Smith. I believe there is a way less chance of selecting an impact skater in the later rounds than there is a goalie. But I could be wrong.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Well if you draft Askarov at 5, which was the original discussion, would you not expect him to be the franchise starter? When guys like Rossi and Holtz are there? Skater talent that you likely won't be able to identify and draft in the later rounds because its a huge skater pool to select from compared to goalie pool.

History tells us that a couple goalies will be selected later in the draft as good or better than Askarov. Why not take your chances there in the later rounds instead of picking a Hunter Smith. I believe there is a way less chance of selecting an impact skater in the later rounds than there is a goalie. But I could be wrong.

Which is fine if you have one pick in the top 5. But the Sens have two, I merely postulated that since they have two they address both a potential franchise forward AND a franchise goalie in one fell swoop. Thats it. Of all the draft eligible goalies in the last few years, and maybe the next two or 3, Askarov stands alone at the top of the heap.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Well if you draft Askarov at 5, which was the original discussion, would you not expect him to be the franchise starter? When guys like Rossi and Holtz are there? Skater talent that you likely won't be able to identify and draft in the later rounds because its a huge skater pool to select from compared to goalie pool.

History tells us that a couple goalies will be selected later in the draft as good or better than Askarov. Why not take your chances there in the later rounds instead of picking a Hunter Smith. I believe there is a way less chance of selecting an impact skater in the later rounds than there is a goalie. But I could be wrong.

Hard to tell with goalies, but this draft really has a clear top goalie (Askarov) and a HUGE drop off to anyone else. So I think there is low probability that a goalie picked later ends up being better. The closest comparison is Vasilevsky and his draft year.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yes but Brodeur was the other goalie taken in the 1st round that year, so that's more of a whiff on our end

Kidd was the better goalie at that time.
He was the top ranked pick for goalies, and Potvin was ranked ahead of Brodeur, too.

[CalgaryFan1988]

A good article about it here.

https://theathletic.com/1791055/2020...f-trevor-kidd/

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Kidd was the better goalie at that time.
He was the top ranked pick for goalies, and Potvin was ranked ahead of Brodeur, too.

Yes, which made the Devils comfortable enough to trade us their 1st rounder and move down, even though they were also looking for a goalie.

I don't care what the rankings were, the Devils scouting staff was able to identify that Brodeur was the best in the class. That's exactly what I'm criticizing. The flames have almost never been able to do that with goalies.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yes, which made the Devils comfortable enough to trade us their 1st rounder and move down, even though they were also looking for a goalie.

I don't care what the rankings were, the Devils scouting staff was able to identify that Brodeur was the best in the class. That's exactly what I'm criticizing. The flames have almost never been able to do that with goalies.

Well, they did in this case, but are they able to do that consistently, or did they just get lucky with Brodeur?

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yes, which made the Devils comfortable enough to trade us their 1st rounder and move down, even though they were also looking for a goalie.

I don't care what the rankings were, the Devils scouting staff was able to identify that Brodeur was the best in the class. That's exactly what I'm criticizing. The flames have almost never been able to do that with goalies.

Was Brodeur the best of the class or did Brodeur become the best of the class through his own doing. Players have an affect on how they develop and the players they become.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Was Brodeur the best of the class or did Brodeur become the best of the class through his own doing. Players have an affect on how they develop and the players they become.

This is valid, and I think it's exactly why the recent scouting staff of the last 4-5 years has heavily prioritized competitiveness and drive in the drafting process. Perhaps we'll see a turn around (I hope we will) in terms of talent we've drafted. Parsons and Wolf both fit this style of player- they are top performers but have some notable struggles they've had to push through to find success.

I digress, the problem might be fixed, but for a long time we seemed to be a consensus selecting team, much to our own detriment.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Let's be clear though that at the time, Kidd was the clear and consensus #1 goalie. The Flames didn't go "off board" or do something unexpected by taking him over Brodeur or Potvin. Kidd was the "next franchise goalie" in that draft. Speaks to the challenge of projecting goalies - but I disagree with the notion that this was a Flames error.

Kind of like how Askarov is the "next franchise goalie" in this draft and how some think it would be a good idea to trade 19 + 50 to move up and grab him?

Maybe he will be the next stud goalie, but that's too risky for me.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is valid, and I think it's exactly why the recent scouting staff of the last 4-5 years has heavily prioritized competitiveness and drive in the drafting process. Perhaps we'll see a turn around (I hope we will) in terms of talent we've drafted. Parsons and Wolf both fit this style of player- they are top performers but have some notable struggles they've had to push through to find success.

I digress, the problem might be fixed, but for a long time we seemed to be a consensus selecting team, much to our own detriment.

I mean you are comparing completely different eras where there is likely no overlap between the staff and management.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Kind of like how Askarov is the "next franchise goalie" in this draft and how some think it would be a good idea to trade 19 + 50 to move up and grab him?

Maybe he will be the next stud goalie, but that's too risky for me.

Risky for sure, but it's a game changer if he hits.
I would do it, but understand why others wouldn't.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I mean you are comparing completely different eras where there is likely no overlap between the staff and management.

Corporate culture can long outlive staff and management changes if it's not intentionally confronted.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Corporate culture can long outlive staff and management changes if it's not intentionally confronted.

I think that's a reach in this case. What part of the culture do you think needs to be intentionally confronted?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Risky for sure, but it's a game changer if he hits.
I would do it, but understand why others wouldn't.

If we draft our next #1 centre, that too would be a game changer.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Was Brodeur the best of the class or did Brodeur become the best of the class through his own doing. Players have an affect on how they develop and the players they become.

He was also able to play on pretty much the best defensive team ever assembled.

Having Stevens/Niedemyer/Rafalski along with playing absolute shut down hockey, who’s to say that Kidd couldn’t have turned into that and we may have failed with Brodeur.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is valid, and I think it's exactly why the recent scouting staff of the last 4-5 years has heavily prioritized competitiveness and drive in the drafting process. Perhaps we'll see a turn around (I hope we will) in terms of talent we've drafted. Parsons and Wolf both fit this style of player- they are top performers but have some notable struggles they've had to push through to find success.

I digress, the problem might be fixed, but for a long time we seemed to be a consensus selecting team, much to our own detriment.

Ah it's a fine line

Feaster and Weisbrod got critized for the opposite and not drafting by consensus and thinking they were the "smartest guys in the room".

I think the key is just to prioritize skill, speed, and previous results over size and intangibles.

You do that and you probably come out ahead more often than not.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Ah it's a fine line

Feaster and Weisbrod got critized for the opposite and not drafting by consensus and thinking they were the "smartest guys in the room".

I think the key is just to prioritize skill, speed, and previous results over size and intangibles.

You do that and you probably come out ahead more often than not.

That and to judge where the league is going. Speed is where it's at right now.