Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[bubbsy]

The flames are in a really bad spot.

The bottoming out, draft high part of the rebuild is done.
Out of that they have Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk Bennett to show for it. Outside of that, they have some goaltending lottery balls (parson, Gilles, Rittich), some good d prospects (Valimaki, Andersson, kylington, fox). Up front, there's practically no players in the system that are high probability top 6ers.

They have Monahan and Backlund as their top 2 centers. Monahan is a lower echelon top line center, and offensively speaking, Backlund is a lower echelon 2nd line center.

With the high picks handed out, there is no way to really improve this organically. So it's ufa or trades. The only way out of this is some very savvy hockey deals,where a combination of a nhl dman and prospects are moved for another elite forward. Could be tough in a league where offensive output is likely to be a higher premium....

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You’re saying the mistake the Flames organization continually makes is firing their GM? Isn’t that the result of hiring the wrong person, or worse yet an organizational emphasis that is misguided?

Or maybe they should have just kept Feaster.

Anyway I think it was Alexander Graham Bell who said the definition of insanity was continuing to go down the wrong path because you hadn’t yet found the right path.

You’re right it was Bell. My mistake
Feaster had to go
But Coates and Button needed more time to execute a long term strategy
The short term thinking is driven by an organization that only gives their gms a short timeframe to succeed
Some stability at the top would be good

[Pipty]

Basically we are effed for another decade... The same thing we have seen the last 2 before that. A very good piece or 2 and alot of over paid passengers. Without the one lucky run to the finals we would be one of the worst franchises in all pro sports. Do we really want to give this management group a blank cheque by giving in to a new arena. KK and co need to go and we need a true rebuild.... Luckily we do have some good young pieces still but many are American and I bet won't stick around very long if this continues.

Originally Posted by bubbsy

The flames are in a really bad spot.

The bottoming out, draft high part of the rebuild is done.
Out of that they have Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk Bennett to show for it. Outside of that, they have some goaltending lottery balls (parson, Gilles, Rittich), some good d prospects (Valimaki, Andersson, kylington, fox). Up front, there's practically no players in the system that are high probability top 6ers.

They have Monahan and Backlund as their top 2 centers. Monahan is a lower echelon top line center, and offensively speaking, is a lower echelon 2nd line center.

With the high picks handed out, there is no way to really improve this organically. So it's ufa or trades. The only way out of this is some very savvy hockey deals,where a combination of a nhl dman and prospects are moved for another elite forward. Could be tough in a league where offensive output is likely to be a higher premium....

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You’re right it was Bell. My mistake
Feaster had to go
But Coates and Button needed more time to execute a long term strategy
The short term thinking is driven by an organization that only gives their gms a short timeframe to succeed
Some stability at the top would be good

Well said. I like Treliving. I don’t really like his moves in the aggregate. And that may well be because he is operating on a timetable that is not of his choosing.

[driveway]

I get the sense most of the people in this thread don't pay a lot of attention to the NHL as a whole and mostly just watch Flames games. What a lot of overreaction to a mediocre season.

We're in a similar place to the Jets and Predators of a few years ago - the team everyone thinks should be better than they are. Missing one low-teens first round draft pick isn't going to hamstring the organization.

We have good players up front. We have good defense, we have very good defensive prospects.

A bit of improvment from the bottom six. A slightly better powerplay. A decent home record and suddenly we're #2 in the division.

Hockey is a lot closer and a lot more random than any other sport. We didn't make it this year, but anyone who thinks we're 'screwed for a decade' is a fool.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

They have Monahan and Backlund as their top 2 centers. Monahan is a lower echelon top line center, and offensively speaking, is a lower echelon 2nd line center.

Monahan - 18th in points for a Centre, 9th in goals.

Your 'echelons' are absurd.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

The flames are in a really bad spot.

No, they really aren't.

The bottoming out, draft high part of the rebuild is done.

Not really. There are still players that can step in and supplement the current crop.

Out of that they have Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk Bennett to show for it. Outside of that, they have some goaltending lottery balls (parson, Gilles, Rittich), some good d prospects (Valimaki, Andersson, kylington, fox). Up front, there's practically no players in the system that are high probability top 6ers.

Jankowski says hi. Definitely a future player, especially if you're including Bennett in the mix.

They have Monahan and Backlund as their top 2 centers. Monahan is a lower echelon top line center, and offensively speaking, is a lower echelon 2nd line center.

On what planet is Monahan a lower echelon 2nd line center? I mean, give me a break. Monahan is currently 18th in scoring for centers. He's 9th for goals scored. That is not a lower echelon 2nd line center. I really wish Monahan would get the respect he deserves.

With the high picks handed out, there is no way to really improve this organically. So it's ufa or trades. The only way out of this is some very savvy hockey deals,where a combination of a nhl dman and prospects are moved for another elite forward. Could be tough in a league where offensive output is likely to be a higher premium....

Unless you're picking top three, it is unlikely you're going to see any draft picks step right in and contribute to a team you hope to be a playoff contender. Fortunately, the Flames have more than enough options to improve the team in terms of trade. Brodie is still an attractive piece. As are some of our prospects. I know its popular to crap all over the team right now, but this is still a team with some damn good prospects that could be used to get a scorer.

So no, things are not bleak, and the team is not in a bad spot. Remove the coach and bring in a guy who knows how to put lines together and you are likely going to see a really positive change and a quick rebound.

[bubbsy]

Typo in my post. My view is that Monahan is about an avg 1st line C and Backlund is offensively a lower echelon 2nd line C

[Erick Estrada]

There’s enough talent and it’s a matter of a few tweaks and a really good coach and this team can make something of the next two seasons. After that Hamilton and Gio will be the only defensemen still under contract and hopefully by then a couple of defensemen emerge from the system.

[Dr. Doom]

I would like to see what happens with another coach. And a solid backup that can literally split games with Smith if needed. Smith at his wage can't face this kind of barrage. He came back cold and injured and it shows...

This team under Hartley would have been a lot better I'm sorry to say but GG had no idea how to use the D especially.

If that doesn't work, the only real pigeon hole contract as far as preventing US from making an escape move is Gio. Hate to say it because I love him but he's not worth the money or the term. I'm beginning to question his voice now sadly as well... but then again maybe he just didn't agree with GG?

[Vinny01]

There are very good pieces on this team. Our top 3 scorers are under 25 and there is not a ton of bad money on the team.

Gulutzan reminds me a lot like Playfair in he is a good assistant but not going to cut it as a head coach of a nhl team. They even share 2 over the top (and out of character) outbursts that got some media.

Treliving will be feeling a lot more heat if he sticks by his coach in my opinion. I do think Brad will get another summer and year to get this team in the playoffs. If they miss again next year he is probably on the way out.

I can definitely see the Flames going to the draft dangling a Dman for forward. Brodie, or Hamilton is going to be my guess. I wonder though if this wouldn’t be the summer to see if there is a market for Giordano? He has had a great run the past 3 seasons and has not been hurt since 2015.

Gio has been great for the franchise but perhaps with this season being such a failure they shake up the roster and the leadership group?

[corporatejay]

Flames underperformed this year. I wouldn't put that on the GM. He gave them the pieces, team didn't execute (that's on the players and the staff).

Someone listed the accomplishments of the individual pieces this year and if you look at them alone you would have swore the Flames were competing for the division.

GM Isn't responsible for the terrible home record and disgusting power play.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Flames underperformed this year. I wouldn't put that on the GM. He gave them the pieces, team didn't execute (that's on the players and the staff).

Someone listed the accomplishments of the individual pieces this year and if you look at them alone you would have swore the Flames were competing for the division.

GM Isn't responsible for the terrible home record and disgusting power play.

Didn't give them all the pieces. Went too hard on defense and didn't do enough on forwards. And letting the coach keep his job all season is also on him.

[Mister Yamoto]

How many goalies is Treliving going to go through during his time here?

Ramo, Hiller, Johnson, Elliot, Lack, Smith smell a lot like Kidd, Wregget, Tabbaracci, Fuhr.

Get a goalie Treliving.

[_Q_]

I think Smith and Rittich are a fantastic tandem.

We don't need new goalies, we need a new head coach!

[Mister Yamoto]

Smith has been garbage since the All Star game.

[really?]

"My view is that Monahan is about an avg 1st line C and Backlund is offensively a lower echelon 2nd line"

Monahan is a solid player, but it's absurd to think the elite talent of Gaudreau doesn't account for a large portion of his being 18th in the league in scoring. I largely agree with your posts. If Monahan was asked to drive line 2 he'd be elite as #2 centers go. Backlund would be the same as a true 3. I believe both guys are being asked to do a bit more than there respective skillsets offer.

Not going to happen, but you somehow get Tavares and this team is a force.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

How many goalies is Treliving going to go through during his time here?

Ramo, Hiller, Johnson, Elliot, Lack, Smith smell a lot like Kidd, Wregget, Tabbaracci, Fuhr.

Get a goalie Treliving.

Yep. I said likewise earlier. This team is starting to remind me of the Iggy years in the early 2000s - which was going nowhere until Mikka Kiprusoff arrived. Smith is good, but he's no Kipper and he's well past his prime.

[Hackey]

People are acting like you just head to the store and pick up an elite goaltender. Most elite tenders are drafted by their team.

[GullFoss]

Goaltending hasn't been the problem this year. Ignoring coaching, the problem has been a bad PP and a weak bottom six. The good news is that the flames have a ton of cap space, which is further enhanced by the fact that the organisation can buy Brouwer out and trade stone to promote Andersson.

Fixing the bad PP: The flames have sufficient cap space to sign a top 3 forward with a RH shot and a 2nd line centerman

Johnny-Monahan-Perron
Tkachuck-Stastny-Ferland

Fixing the third line to be Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
- The second line center pushes Backlund down to third line
- The top line RW signed as a UFA will bump Ferland to line 2, which bumps Frolik to line 3.


Fixing the fourth line: Mangiapane-Janko-Hathaway/Lazar/Lomberg
-Hathaway replaces Brouwer
-Mangiapane gets called up
-Stajan is replaced by Janko
-The fourth line is now more skilled and faster and bigger than Lazar-Stajan-Brouwer