Thats the problem. His numbers indicate that he has already put it together and performs just fine in NHL competition, but isnt being given a chance to play. Hes an NHL level player. Play him or deal him.
The CP cycle continues.. Why does every thread have to come back to this argument?
Baertchi's NHL numbers indicate he is offensively ready for the NHL. He was sent back to the AHL to work on his play away from the puck and get stronger on the puck. If he's done that and hasn't been surpassed on the depth chart, we'll see him in the starting line-up or as one of the first injury call-ups.
There is absolutely no need to deal Baertchi as his value is most definitely low at the moment.
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I might be among the minority who thinks Baertschi will be better than Gaudreau come September. This is a guy who played at a 2 ppg pace in juniors and then was playing at nearly an NHL ppg pace as a 19year old emergency call up. He's then performed at 0.5ppg NHL pace as a one dimensional player in the dog house with limited ice time.
Make no mistake, Baertschi is a phenomenal talent who flat out dominates when he turns it on. He's now got a younger, Johnny Hockey eyeing major ice time as the Flames best new hot shot. If Baertschi shows up with humility and compete level, its not just Johnny who has his work cut out for him, its Raymond, Hudler, Glencross, Byron and everyone else who thinks they have a spot guaranteed.
Why would you be expecting that? Last year at the Young Stars Tournament.... a tournament that he had the most NHL experience and training .. a place where he should have been at a totally dominate level he played 3 games -2 no points 6 shots on goal.
I thought that the Flames or Baertschi was holding back..... but I think it was the lack of compete and humility.
Granlund... in his first pro scrimmages 3 goals 4 pts in 3 games and 11 shots on goal.
It is interesting that Hayes is ruling out the Blackhawks. They are headed for a huge cap crunch and they will need to play kids on elc on order to be cap compliant. He has size which is what they are looking for. He must really want to play for a specific team or with specific players in order to pass up that kind if opportunity with that organization.
It is interesting that Hayes is ruling out the Blackhawks. They are headed for a huge cap crunch and they will need to play kids on elc on order to be cap compliant. He has size which is what they are looking for. He must really want to play for a specific team or with specific players in order to pass up that kind if opportunity with that organization.
There may very well be a specific team (or a few) he is preferring, but even with Chicago's cap problems, it doesn't solve much for him. Even if they trade away a vet or two, there are still other young players in their system that are ahead of him. He simply falls too deep in the depth chart - the exact same issue as Corban Knight in Florida.
As well, there were rumors that he was upset with Chicago for trading away his brother, but not sure. All that we can be sure about is that 29 other teams will be circling him like vultures trying to pick up a free and decent young asset, and I bet at least one of those teams offers him some sort of a guarantee about getting him NHL ice-time this season.
Why would you be expecting that? Last year at the Young Stars Tournament.... a tournament that he had the most NHL experience and training .. a place where he should have been at a totally dominate level he played 3 games -2 no points 6 shots on goal.
I thought that the Flames or Baertschi was holding back..... but I think it was the lack of compete and humility.
Granlund... in his first pro scrimmages 3 goals 4 pts in 3 games and 11 shots on goal.
FFS, Ricardodw, you admitted JUST one page back that it was your fault for the last huge Sven Baertschi derail, then you go and do this on the next god damn page? C'mon, man.
No news on Hayes... I'm over him. Back to the main topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio
I might be among the minority who thinks Baertschi will be better than Gaudreau come September. This is a guy who played at a 2 ppg pace in juniors and then was playing at nearly an NHL ppg pace as a 19year old emergency call up. He's then performed at 0.5ppg NHL pace as a one dimensional player in the dog house with limited ice time.
Maybe (doubtfully) Sven will be better than Johnny in September... But he isn't now. He scored 2 ppg in junior, so? JG scored 2 ppg in the ncaa. and he's a ppg player in the NHL He's smaller than Sven but looks way bigger on the boards and while neither are touted for their defense, JG has shown hustle and compete in his backchecking. Overall a better player. And I'm a huge Sven fan.
Why would you be expecting that? Last year at the Young Stars Tournament.... a tournament that he had the most NHL experience and training .. a place where he should have been at a totally dominate level he played 3 games -2 no points 6 shots on goal.
I thought that the Flames or Baertschi was holding back..... but I think it was the lack of compete and humility.
Granlund... in his first pro scrimmages 3 goals 4 pts in 3 games and 11 shots on goal.
Baertschi was a monster during his emergency call-up. The hype was huge after seeing him during those 5 games, which likely caused him becoming overly confident afterwards
Hayes is a better prospect then Arnold, just sayin'
Kevin Hayes:
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM
2010-11 Boston College H-East 31 4 10 14 8
2011-12 Boston College H-East 44 7 21 28 10
2012-13 Boston College H-East 27 6 19 25 14
2013-14 Boston College H-East 40 27 38 65 16
Bill Arnold:
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM
2009-10 U.S. National Under-18 Team USHL 26 8 15
2010-11 Boston College H-East 39 10 10 20 38
2011-12 Boston College H-East 42 17 19 36 46
2012-13 Boston College H-East 38 17 18 35 40
2013-14 Calgary Flames NHL 1 0 0 0 0
2013-14 Boston College H-East 40 14 39 53 51
Comparable if you ask me. Factor in that Arnold is a VERY good defensive player, plays a much more physical style, and apparently is a high hockey-IQ player full of character - I will take Arnold every day of the week.
Hayes is bigger, but doesn't use it (look at his PIM for instance). Hayes is not as good of a skater, but he does have a better shot. You can argue that Hayes is a better offensive player, but that is about where the story ends.
I will be happy if the Flames sign Hayes - a free asset with potential. However, if it was a choice between Arnold and Hayes, I wouldn't even take a second to think. His game translates much better to the NHL. Watch those 3 players, and what you notice happening quite often is Arnold winning a puck battle in the neutral or defensive zone, feeding Gaudreau the puck, and then Gaudreau and Hayes attack the net while Arnold trails up the ice after them. Arnold was the catalyst on so many plays. Hayes was a good option to have on that line - he has decent hands, a decent shot, and he isn't a bad skater (but something he really needs to work on for the NHL).
Hayes beat Arnold in scoring only in the last season, and if you watch those games, Arnold was time and again the 'unheralded' defensive presence that allowed Gaudreau and Hayes to attack more. Gaudreau was the biggest catalyst on that line, followed by Arnold, and though I won't say Hayes was just a passenger, he was the more easily replaced member of that line. They all had great synergy together, but Arnold is a much better prospect in practically every facet when compared to Hayes.
Last edited by Calgary4LIfe; 08-09-2014 at 08:09 PM.
Reason: Edit: sorry bad table
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Comparable if you ask me. Factor in that Arnold is a VERY good defensive player, plays a much more physical style, and apparently is a high hockey-IQ player full of character - I will take Arnold every day of the week.
Hayes is bigger, but doesn't use it (look at his PIM for instance). Hayes is not as good of a skater, but he does have a better shot. You can argue that Hayes is a better offensive player, but that is about where the story ends.
I will be happy if the Flames sign Hayes - a free asset with potential. However, if it was a choice between Arnold and Hayes, I wouldn't even take a second to think. His game translates much better to the NHL. Watch those 3 players, and what you notice happening quite often is Arnold winning a puck battle in the neutral or defensive zone, throwing feeding Gaudreau the puck, and then Gaudreau and Hayes attack the net while Arnold trails up the ice after them. Arnold was the catalyst on so many plays. Hayes was a good option to have on that line - he has decent hands, a decent shot, and he isn't a bad skater (but something he really needs to work on for the NHL).
Hayes beat Arnold in scoring only in the last season, and if you watch those games, Arnold was time and again the 'unheralded' defensive presence that allowed Gaudreau and Hayes to attack more. Gaudreau was the biggest catalyst on that line, followed by Arnold, and though I won't say Hayes was just a passenger, he was the more easily replaced member of that line. They all had great synergy together, but Arnold is a much better prospect in practically every facet when compared to Hayes.
Not going to argue this heavily, because to be perfectly frank, I haven't watched enough of either to form a solid opinion. My post was mostly to rile a few posters up and try to get a Hayes argument going in a Hayes thread instead of people carrying on about Sven. However, it is interesting that CP has such a high opinion of Arnold, while most non biased observers gave the top ten Hobey Baker nod too Hayes.
Why would you be expecting that? Last year at the Young Stars Tournament.... a tournament that he had the most NHL experience and training .. a place where he should have been at a totally dominate level he played 3 games -2 no points 6 shots on goal.
I thought that the Flames or Baertschi was holding back..... but I think it was the lack of compete and humility.
Granlund... in his first pro scrimmages 3 goals 4 pts in 3 games and 11 shots on goal.
You quoted yourself once before, where you apologized for hi-jacking the thread. Now you did it again. You just can't stop can you?
Not going to argue this heavily, because to be perfectly frank, I haven't watched enough of either to form a solid opinion. My post was mostly to rile a few posters up and try to get a Hayes argument going in a Hayes thread instead of people carrying on about Sven. However, it is interesting that CP has such a high opinion of Arnold, while most non biased observers gave the top ten Hobey Baker nod too Hayes.
If you look back at past winners, you see a mish-mash of guys who have had great NHL careers, and guys that did absolutely nothing. Hobey Baker has usually been purely on scoring. A guy like Arnold - a defensive-minded player - doesn't usually get a whole lot of love for the Hobey Baker. A Hobey Baker is a great award to win, but it does little in being a good predictor of future NHL success.
You quoted yourself once before, where you apologized for hi-jacking the thread. Now you did it again. You just can't stop can you?
It was one of the dumbest sequences I've ever seen on CP. It was goldfish style..... "Sorry guys, that was my bad about Sven, here's a quote of my post where I derailed the thread and..............oh speaking of Sven!"
He's smaller than Sven but looks way bigger on the boards and while neither are touted for their defense, JG has shown hustle and compete in his backchecking. Overall a better player. And I'm a huge Sven fan.
