#occupy<insertlocalehere>

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by woob

You're totally allowed an opinion! Just like I'm totally allowed to comment that I think people who are still complaining about the impact on their life should suck it and up and adjust, which if you go back and read my original comment yesterday (I think), was my whole point! I have never commented on what I think is acceptable, on whether I think it's right or wrong that the protesters are infringing on people's everyday life, or such.

So would you not agree that the whinging crusties need to suck it up and adjust to capitalism then, they are perfectly free to complain to the authorities as well, there is no excuse to be setting up tents all over the place just because a small number of a society are pissed that their benefit cheques arn't big enough.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If they're handing any of that Michael Godard crap, I'll join the occupy movement til all of his art is burned in a hobo barrel

I chose post modern because I think it is a cause we can all agree on. I'll get the barrel you pick up the gas.

[woob]

Originally Posted by valo403

Would probably make sense to remove Arab Springs as well, that comparison has been absurd from the start.

I will say that you're doing a very convenient job of avoiding discussing an actual issue, instead sticking with what are quite obvious conclusions.

Don't be obtuse, I was calling Arab springs a disruptive protest, which it was. I wasn't saying its in the same ballpark as NYC.

I will say that you're doing a very convenient job of not acknowledging my opinion and view on the matter.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by woob

Don't be obtuse, I was calling Arab springs a disruptive protest, which it was. I wasn't saying its in the same ballpark as NYC.

I will say that you're doing a very convenient job of not acknowledging my opinion and view on the matter.

I've certainly acknowledged your view, it's akin to saying 'it is what it is' and throwing up your hands. You're not discussing an issue, all you've said is that people need to deal with being disrupted, as if there was another choice.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by woob

Don't be obtuse, I was calling Arab springs a disruptive protest, which it was. I wasn't saying its in the same ballpark as NYC.

I will say that you're doing a very convenient job of not acknowledging my opinion and view on the matter.

I believe you are a hypocrite. I believe that if you had 100 dirty, smelling, homeless and jobless bums camping in your front yard or occupying a park across the street from your home, crapping everywhere, hassling you as you go about your daily business, I'm positive you'd be singing a different tune.

[woob]

Originally Posted by valo403

You're completely missing the point that people shouldn't have to adjust anything due to these protests. Again and again you ignore the fact that for some reason these protesters think it's okay to disrupt the lives of thousands of people who are just trying to go about their regular business.

As a global society, we accept that protests happen. They occur everywhere for any amount of reasons. Those reasons are seen by some as valid, some as not, some don't care either way. That really doesn't matter because the people that want to protest are going to protest, no matter what those who don't agree with it or don't care about it think. And society is going to react to that either by supporting them or sending out the riot cops. Until someone writes a manual on the proper way to protest that makes everyone happy and the Earth as a whole agrees to this globally and abides by it, protesters are only going to be concerned with what they're protesting about and how to get that message out en masse.

While we may not agree with their methods, it's besides the point. You and I can debate whether it is right or wont until the cows come home but really, what does it achieve? You can feel better for yourself because in the case of one protest I may say I have no issues with the impact they are causing and to you and a bunch of critics you agree with, that is wrong? It's entirely irrelevant.

But, for your satisfaction I will state the following: I have absolutely no issues with the impact this particular protest has on the surrounding residents of Liberty Park.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I believe you are a hypocrite. I believe that if you had 100 dirty, smelling, homeless and jobless bums camping in your front yard or occupying a park across the street from your home, crapping everywhere, hassling you as you go about your daily business, I'm positive you'd be singing a different tune.

To be fair, your two examples are two different scenarios. One is on your own personal property and is considered trespassing. The other is a public space, which is far more of a touchy issue (as is being demonstrated in Calgary and elsewhere).

I also think that most people, Calgarians for example, aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by these protests; they just think it's annoying. I can see how people would be upset in other cities though where the protesters are more mobile and interfering in infrastructure mediums.

[woob]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I believe you are a hypocrite. I believe that if you had 100 dirty, smelling, homeless and jobless bums camping in your front yard or occupying a park across the street from your home, crapping everywhere, hassling you as you go about your daily business, I'm positive you'd be singing a different tune.

You're entitled to your opinion. This is not the first time someone has made this easy, fall back assertion to me.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by woob

You're entitled to your opinion. This is not the first time someone has made this easy, fall back assertion to me.

Easy fall back assertions seem to be your calling card on this issue.

You have little if any familiarity with the impact these protests are having. I think if you actual knew your tone would change. Especially if you weren't sympathetic to the end goals.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by woob

As a global society, we accept that protests happen. They occur everywhere for any amount of reasons. Those reasons are seen by some as valid, some as not, some don't care either way. That really doesn't matter because the people that want to protest are going to protest, no matter what those who don't agree with it or don't care about it think. And society is going to react to that either by supporting them or sending out the riot cops. Until someone writes a manual on the proper way to protest that makes everyone happy and the Earth as a whole agrees to this globally and abides by it, protesters are only going to be concerned with what they're protesting about and how to get that message out en masse.

While we may not agree with their methods, it's besides the point. You and I can debate whether it is right or wont until the cows come home but really, what does it achieve? You can feel better for yourself because in the case of one protest I may say I have no issues with the impact they are causing and to you and a bunch of critics you agree with, that is wrong? It's entirely irrelevant.

But, for your satisfaction I will state the following: I have absolutely no issues with the impact this particular protest has on the surrounding residents of Liberty Park.

But it keeps coming back to the question of effective versus ineffective protesting.

1) Effective protestors target the thing or group of people that piss them off with the intent of disrupting their lives. IE if you're pissed at the 1%, shouldn't you be protesting by setting up camp in fox country in front of the mansions and estates of the 1%, maybe moving into the penthouse next to the CEO of xyz corporation and banging your drums all night. If your pissed off at the bailouts, you should be protesting in front of the white house and senate as they were literally responsible not only for the bailouts, but also for regulatory environment that the corporations did business in. That's effective protesting, however . . .

2) Ineffective protesting is where you protest against the 1% for example but disrupt the lives of the 99% or even the 53%, where you make people late for work which puts them in poor standings at work, or disrupt their sleep which makes them ineffective at work which threatens their living, or you poop up the parks and facilities that the 99% use, while the 1% sit by and laugh about it at their private clubs and golf course.

What you're literally doing with ineffectual protesting is pissing off the people that should be on your side, and should be supporting you, and making it easier for people to label you as a self interested fringe protest.

beyond that

3) When you show dis-respect to public property by scumming it up, its the 53% who immediately focus on the costs of cleanup for example because they're the ones that are going to deal with the tax burden, they will eventually have to pay a greater share of that burden then the 1%, and the protestors who at this point are obviously not for the most part paying taxes.

4) When you have people sitting in camps all day and up all night making noise and partying, the 53% or 99% are asking themselves about these people not working and what its probably costing in terms of unemployment and welfare benefits to keep those people in those squatter camps.

5) In Canada the 99% have pretty much declared that anyone making over $170,000 is the class enemy 1%, Its hard to be sympathetic to the 99%'ers in those camps when you consider that $170,000 is not some outrageous sum to be paid for someone that is very skilled in thier profession like Doctors and lawyers, and really excellent account managers. If the disparity was like the one in the states wherer the 1% are $400,000 dollars then I could see it

6) If the 1% dropped the whole ridiculous concept of wealth distribution war against the group that pays over 25% of the nations taxes and repackaged it as we need to evaluate the tax codes to close loop holes then we would have a more effective and smarter occupy movement in this country.

7) When you have zero control over the agenda of the occupy movement people wouldn't roll their eyes at it. Oh and if you want to be an effective protest then you actually need to deal with the media and not go all pouty and whine about it when Insano Joe declares that he doesn't work, and one of your key members bitches about nobody helping him, then fails to show up when someone gives him a job.

8) You keep talking about inconvieniencing people, but I ask again, who are they effectively inconvieniencing and turning against their movement. When you have middle working class people saying that its time for occupy to end, or calling them entitled spoiled kids you have a huge problem.

9) Stop asking for free stuff, do you know how much it pisses off the middle and poor working when your sitting in a tent saying give us condoms and clothing and electricity for free, oh and we want you to heat our tents, and the bums are eating our luxury organix food?

10) when people around the OWS or other occupy movements that run small busineese that rely on walk up traffic and they're reporting that the business is down, when you disrupt a small business owners livelyhood, its time to move.

Again, the occupy had its movement at the start, if it would have stopped after the first week, they'd be remembered as a effective grassroots movement, now because they're pissing off the people that they should be supporting, its now looked at as a bunch of campers free loading that should probably try to get back in the workforce.

[woob]

Originally Posted by valo403

Easy fall back assertions seem to be your calling card on this issue.

How else am I supposed to respond when someone makes a judgement call on me when they have absolutely NO idea how I'd respond in the situation? Jerk move, if you ask me.

You have little if any familiarity with the impact these protests are having. I think if you actual knew your tone would change. Especially if you weren't sympathetic to the end goals.

You're right, I have zero experience with the impact of these particular protests. But I read articles, I watch video (from both sides of the fence), and I listen to interviews. Using that, I base my view and opinion.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by woob

You're entitled to your opinion. This is not the first time someone has made this easy, fall back assertion to me.

What a coward. You won't even acknowledge that you'd hate to have an Occupy camp as even a temporary neighbour.

How 'bout you post your address and we'll put your assertion to the test?

[TorqueDog]

^ Do I detect the birth of the Occupy "the city-owned property nearest woob's house" movement?

[CaptainCrunch]

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

^ Do I detect the birth of the Occupy "the city-owned property nearest woob's house" movement?

Can you make up your mind? I have a turtle head popping out.

[woob]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

What a coward. You won't even acknowledge that you'd hate to have an Occupy camp as even a temporary neighbour.

How 'bout you post your address and we'll put your assertion to the test?

I love it when you people use the old "post your address" argument. "I am SO right in knowing how you'd react that you're a coward unless you allow me to prove my accusation by doing such a crazy thing as posting your address on an Internet message board." Talk about lunatic.

Edit: Guess I better re-itrate. I'd adjust, make the changes I need to do what I need to do, and move on. FYI, I don't let an hour and a half drive into work on a bad snow day annoy me either. I adjust by putting on some awesome tunes and enjoy making new tracks in the fresh snow on the road. Gasp!

[Starfishy]

I'm surprised that you don't get annoyed by a long commute. You are the 1%, the rest of us get pissed off during that commute.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Starfishy

I'm surprised that you don't get annoyed by a long commute. You are the 1%, the rest of us get pissed off during that commute.

Good music and CBC

[valo403]

Originally Posted by woob

I love it when you people use the old "post your address" argument. "I am SO right in knowing how you'd react that you're a coward unless you allow me to prove my accusation by doing such a crazy thing as posting your address on an Internet message board." Talk about lunatic.

Edit: Guess I better re-itrate. I'd adjust, make the changes I need to do what I need to do, and move on. FYI, I don't let an hour and a half drive into work on a bad snow day annoy me either. I adjust by putting on some awesome tunes and enjoy making new tracks in the fresh snow on the road. Gasp!

I like that you equate this to a snowstorm as if it's an accepted part of life. You really don't seem to get it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by woob

Good music and CBC

Ah the CBC, paid for by goverment bond issues bought and traded as future derivatives by them evil ####### bankers.