[Signing] Flames sign Jacob Markstrom. (6 yrs, $6mil AAV)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, the big break distorts how much Markstrom got played. And Rittich being bad in his initial starts didn’t help. Besides, I don’t think Rittich got hurt from overwork. I think he was hurt against Vancouver on one of the plays out of the net.

Markstrom? Yeah, the "overworked" narrative makes no sense at all.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ricardo's post is of course ridiculous, but I also think this is a really bad read.

Markstrom played five games in thirteen days to start the season before Rittich received his first start on 28 Jan. Rittich was awful. He then started on the tail-end of the team's first back-to-back the following week, and was once again awful. In a situation like this, the coach has two options and neither of them are good: he either continues to play his top goalie and increase the risk of injury or fatigue, or he keeps throwing his backup into games and risk compiling losses while he figures out his game. LaBarbara and Ward went with the former, Rittich worked out his kinks in practice, and did not start again for the next 17 days.

I have no issue at all with how the goalies have been handled.

That’s your narrative, so of course you have no issue with it

I believe that Rittich actually had some family issues in January where the team worked with him. You will likely recall that he didn’t dress early one game

And more often than not, an awful team makes for an awful goalie

If you think Rittich was awful, then why can’t you agree with Ricardo that Markstrom has been not so good against teams other than Vancouver?

Stats bear it out

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That’s your narrative, so of course you have no issue with it

I believe that Rittich actually had some family issues in January where the team worked with him. You will likely recall that he didn’t dress early one game

Ah, yes. A "narrative" lecture from the spin expert. This does not change the fact that Rittich looked awful and untrustworthy in the first few weeks of the season.

And more often than not, an awful team makes for an awful goalie

If you think Rittich was awful, then why can’t you agree with Ricardo that Markstrom has been not so good against teams other than Vancouver?

Stats bear it out

Because it's ricardodw's cherry-picking at it's finest. Another way to look at it is that Markstrom was fantastic up until the 15 March Vancouver game in which it seems like he might have injured himself, putting up a 2.38 GAA and a 0.924 SP. Since then he has a 4.39 GAA and a 0.856 SP, including two losses v. Vancouver.

[Erick Estrada]

Ha ha ha. I was scrolling down this thread to see who bumped it and as soon as I saw a certain poster I just knew it would be him LOL. He's the weirdest troll I have ever seen because I think unlike most trolls he's kind of oblivious to the fact he's a troll.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by VilleN

If you actually watched the games you'd realize that Markstrom is not the problem. Has he had some average games, yes. But I would say him and Tanev have been our MVPs so far.

He beat Montreal with a shut-out, He beat Winnipeg 3-2 and kept the Flames in a game against Toronto losing 3-2

Taking Vancouver out of the mix 3+ goals against is the norm.

Looking at Sutter's LA team's there was always 3-4 defense first D-Men Mitchell, Greene, Regher, Muzzin, Martinez along with Doughty in his prime. On the Flames there is Tanev....

On the 04 team Regher, Warrener, Ferrence, Gauthier and then Commodore and Montador were defense first d-man.

There never was a shortage of d-men that were comfortable killing a penalty.

Now the MVP Tanev is pretty much the lone Defense first d-man

Will Sutter change the focus? Help out the goalies?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And...

He's way better on Thursdays and Saturdays then the other days of the week!
He's way better in games where the Flames give up 30 or more shots!

And ...

Did some digging on the Canucks thing, it's deeper than that.

He's way better against teams that play in a primary colour of blue than he his against teams that wear orange or black. He's pretty good at playing red teams too.

I was going to look into zodiac signs of each team too but ran out of time.

Sarcasm aside his numbers aren't great .. both goalies are in the red when it comes to gsaa.

Tkachuk mentioned "protecting the goalies better" yesterday, so maybe Sutter is on to it.

Love your post

Mock
Mock
Mock

and finish with

agreement that Markstrom is not playing like a top-6 goalie (or even average) and then support my suggestion that making Markstrom better with better support is likely is a priority with Sutter.

[dino7c]

The Flames are what 10-1-3 when they score 3+ goals... goaltending has been good overall. Team is playing like crap. 5 break aways against the Sens...and a 2 on 0.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Love your post

Mock
Mock
Mock

and finish with

agreement that Markstrom is not playing like a top-6 goalie (or even average) and then support my suggestion that making Markstrom better with better support is likely is a priority with Sutter.

Glad you liked it.

You always try and find negative summaries by sorting through stats in bizarre ways.

I just did the same.

It's odd to look at it as a one team vs other team issue.
It's odd to summarize the Flames organization back to when Kiprusoff retired as there isn't any one left to draw a commonality.

You've been called a troll by many, trolls get mocked when they fail to make the point they're trying to make.

My conclusion is the opposite of trolling, giving credit where credit is due. It's not a Vancouver vs other team issue ... it's a since injury issue, or a breakdown in team defense issue.

So why not post that in the first place and save us the chaos?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ah, yes. A "narrative" lecture from the spin expert. This does not change the fact that Rittich looked awful and untrustworthy in the first few weeks of the season.


Because it's ricardodw's cherry-picking at it's finest. Another way to look at it is that Markstrom was fantastic up until the 15 March Vancouver game in which it seems like he might have injured himself, putting up a 2.38 GAA and a 0.924 SP. Since then he has a 4.39 GAA and a 0.856 SP, including two losses v. Vancouver.

My flux capacitor is in the shop


Nobody knows when Markstrom was hurt. If he was hurt bad enough on Feb 15 to affect performance, he shouldn’t have played the next 2 games. So who gets the blame? The player? The coaches?

It is at least as likely that he got hurt in the last game he played before it was determined he couldn’t play, no?

Seems convenient with the full benefit of hindsight to blame his bad nights on injury (might have happened) when maybe he was healthy enough to play (evidence to suggest so: he played) and the team stunk (evidence: they did).

Now if you said maybe Markstrom was injured on the 17th and traced it to the collision with Pearson, that is plausible, as it was a highly unusual play, and there was some impact. (But it doesn’t work with your idea that he was maybe injured on the 15th so both the 15th and 17th get blamed on the injury).

[Calgary4LIfe]

The very last thing that I am worried about is the goalies - BOTH Markstrom AND Rittich.


I thought Rittich has been fantastic this season. His first started wasn't hot for the first period, but I felt he just got the nerves and rust out of his system, and has played from "Good" to "Out of this world" for the rest of his starts. I have no issue with Rittich starting in the slightest, and I know that Sutter will utilize both goalies the rest of the way from here, obviously giving Markstrom the majority of starts.


Flames are going to need BOTH goalies to have a chance at squeaking into the playoffs, and I think both goalies have been great, and are about to look even better soon with what I think will be more attention and composure in their own end as a team.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Markstrom? Yeah, the "overworked" narrative makes no sense at all.

Markstrom got run over a couple of times in that game against Vancouver.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The very last thing that I am worried about is the goalies - BOTH Markstrom AND Rittich.


I thought Rittich has been fantastic this season. His first started wasn't hot for the first period, but I felt he just got the nerves and rust out of his system, and has played from "Good" to "Out of this world" for the rest of his starts. I have no issue with Rittich starting in the slightest, and I know that Sutter will utilize both goalies the rest of the way from here, obviously giving Markstrom the majority of starts.


Flames are going to need BOTH goalies to have a chance at squeaking into the playoffs, and I think both goalies have been great, and are about to look even better soon with what I think will be more attention and composure in their own end as a team.

Completely agree here

Markstrom is not as unbeatable as he appeared in the early hot streak, nor is he as mediocre as his stats overall in his last 5 games may suggest. He is a very good goalie that is about to have a better game played in front of him

I will say again that I expect a step change in the stats of both goalies

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

My flux capacitor is in the shop


Nobody knows when Markstrom was hurt. If he was hurt bad enough on Feb 15 to affect performance, he shouldn’t have played the next 2 games. So who gets the blame? The player? The coaches?

It is at least as likely that he got hurt in the last game he played before it was determined he couldn’t play, no?

Seems convenient with the full benefit of hindsight to blame his bad nights on injury (might have happened) when maybe he was healthy enough to play (evidence to suggest so: he played) and the team stunk (evidence: they did).

Now if you said maybe Markstrom was injured on the 17th and traced it to the collision with Pearson, that is plausible, as it was a highly unusual play, and there was some impact. (But it doesn’t work with your idea that he was maybe injured on the 15th so both the 15th and 17th get blamed on the injury).

Fine, then. The 17th. It doesn't do much to change the notion that Markstrom was excellent in the first month, and then looked a lot worse in games after a crazy collision with Pearson.

In the end I am unsure what any of this has to do with my initial point which you challenged: that the Flames coaches were struggling to find starts for Rittich in the first five or six weeks because of how poorly he was playing.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Fine, then. The 17th. It doesn't do much to change the notion that Markstrom was excellent in the first month, and then looked a lot worse in games after a crazy collision with Pearson.

In the end I am unsure what any of this has to do with my initial point which you challenged: that the Flames coaches were struggling to find starts for Rittich in the first five or six weeks because of how poorly he was playing.

I never heard the coaches say anything to suggest that

You built a narrative and said you had no issue with the handling of goalies. That’s fine, but you are agreeing with your narrative, not necessarily the facts as the coaches saw them. That’s all

I think Ward made a mistake over playing Markstrom early, could have spread out the load. Markstrom did get hurt, and over use could have been a contributing factor, making him a bit more vulnerable. That’s also plausible


Either way, the Flames have 2 good goalies and a good coach now. I don’t care to discuss whether or not Ward was good enough. Because he wasn’t

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Completely agree here

Markstrom is not as unbeatable as he appeared in the early hot streak, nor is he as mediocre as his stats overall in his last 5 games may suggest. He is a very good goalie that is about to have a better game played in front of him

I will say again that I expect a step change in the stats of both goalies

Not sure anyone is going to catch Fleury this season (WTF??) or Vasilevsky (.943 and .936 SV%, 1.57 and 1.79 GAA respectively), but I imagine that Markstrom is probably going to have numbers in that ballpark from here on out, and will probably have a Vezina-quality season (though again, tough to catch those two goalies unless they suddenly face-plant).


I have no idea how anyone could have an issue with either goalie, as my constant gripe this season has been how if it weren't for them making outstanding save after outstanding save, this team would be giving Ottawa a run for its' lottery money.


Markstrom has been 'as advertised' if not better here so far, and I think he has been worn out a bit.


Rittich - after a very short runway - has been everything you hope for in a bona fide starter.


I think under Sutter, their numbers are only going to get better, and how they are managed will improve as well.

[Erick Estrada]

Rittich a bona fide starter? He's just an okay backup at this stage of his career but I would be fine if the team found a different backup after the season as he's too sporadic for my liking. I would rather the backup to be a Talbot type of goaltender that's consistently average over a guy that could be great or horrible on a game to game basis.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The very last thing that I am worried about is the goalies - BOTH Markstrom AND Rittich.


I thought Rittich has been fantastic this season. His first started wasn't hot for the first period, but I felt he just got the nerves and rust out of his system, and has played from "Good" to "Out of this world" for the rest of his starts. I have no issue with Rittich starting in the slightest, and I know that Sutter will utilize both goalies the rest of the way from here, obviously giving Markstrom the majority of starts.


Flames are going to need BOTH goalies to have a chance at squeaking into the playoffs, and I think both goalies have been great, and are about to look even better soon with what I think will be more attention and composure in their own end as a team.

Yeah, totally agree. This team will and have made ALL goalies look bad at times. Still don't understand the need to get a $6mil goalie to try to make the team look good. This team has some glaring holes on the forward lines.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Rittich a bona fide starter? He's just an okay backup at this stage of his career but I would be fine if the team found a different backup after the season as he's too sporadic for my liking. I would rather the backup to be a Talbot type of goaltender that's consistently average over a guy that could be great or horrible on a game to game basis.

He's shown that he is a starter in net in the past until he got hurt later down the stretch. The more a goalie plays the more confidence he gets. It's not all his fault for a lot of the Flames losses in previous and current years either. This team is known for killing coaches and goalies! How many coaches and goalies have Tre gone through now?

[Manhattanboy]

I would love nothing more than to see Rittich succeed. He seems like an awesome teammate.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I would love nothing more than to see Rittich succeed. He seems like an awesome teammate.

Couldn't agree more and Markstrom is having a tough time because the team is, imo.