10-18-2025, 10:06 AM
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#8961
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejays
I just worry how the players react to being put in a must win situation unnecessarily.
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This team has been in a "must win" mode for a month now, no? I'm not worried...they live and die with the bats, and didn't break through last night. It is very likely that either team gets absolutely crushed by the Dodgers, so just enjoy the (hopefully 2) games of late October baseball.
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10-18-2025, 10:12 AM
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#8962
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
The real frustrating part was how the Mariners were almost completely useless offensively for three straight games...
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They hit back to back homers in the 8th on Wednesday night and sprinkled solo shots in throughout the games in Seattle. The difference in the 2 wins was the Jays offence giving the bullpen room to breath. I thought we'd have a closer finish last night, but wasn't optimistic with Munoz coming in for the 9th and only a 1 run advantage. Just gotta repeat the energy of games 1/2 vs. the Yankees and we're in the world series! I'm off into the woods to cut and burn things/vent frustrations up until first pitch tomorrow. Go Jays!
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10-18-2025, 10:12 AM
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#8963
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingred89
It's also worrisome that this team can't seem to win low scoring affairs anymore. Which worries me if/when they play the Dodgers in the world series. Even the pesky Jays are going to have a hard time scoring against Snell/Yamamoto/Glasnow. And that's with Ohtani lurking in the shadows.
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All bets are off in the WS. Jays would be massive underdogs and only question for many would be how many games will it take, 4 or 5.
If thy get there after last nights debacle it will because these players have taken things into their own hands and they just need to go 4-3 in next 7.
Dodgers are undoubtedly on a roll with a 24-6 record since Yamomotos no hitter was broken up and they lost vs the Oirioles. Starters are lighted out but they have to be because the bullpen is weak. Now with having post game LCS presentations the way they do, watching and hearing it presented last night you couldn’t tell if they had won the WS, as it was basically implied and hopefully that cockiness, week long layoff will have them come out flat.
Jays could well get stomped but they will have home field. And when the Dodgers sucked through the year it’s because the starters then struggled as a unit. So get to one of them like Snell and maybe the others also start second guessing things.
I wouldn’t like their chances but I think they are a better set of players (right now) then Seattle, they just have a manager and pitching coach that doesn’t quite know what they’re doing.
Dan Wilson used his closers in middle innings the last two games to try and hold the Jays and it worked at least yesterday. The Jays closer didn’t even warm up, while ahead in a 2-1 pivotal game 5.
Last edited by browna; 10-18-2025 at 10:19 AM.
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10-18-2025, 10:16 AM
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#8964
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
This team has been in a "must win" mode for a month now, no? I'm not worried...they live and die with the bats, and didn't break through last night. It is very likely that either team gets absolutely crushed by the Dodgers, so just enjoy the (hopefully 2) games of late October baseball.
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I guess everyone is in must-win mode but further than that now they're in do or die, with no wiggle room. Again, it's "only" two games, but they now have a ton more pressure on them when Seattle should be the ones with their backs to the wall. People in general, have been shown to not perform well under extreme pressure. I'd much rather be in Seattle's shoes. I agree that the Dodgers are very likely to take it but I'd sure like to see this team instead of Seattle there. Would make for a great story line too, if the Shohei contender can win it without him. Seattle/LA is very meh. Truly Toronto is a better overall team in my mind.
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10-18-2025, 10:24 AM
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#8965
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejays
Seattle/LA is very meh. Truly Toronto is a better overall team in my mind.
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I think this team has played their best ball with their backs flat up against the wall all year. From all the comebacks to the last 4 games of the reg. season. As far as Seattle/LA being "meh", I truly think the Jays are the better team but that's still a rad west coast matchup. I've got lots of Mariner fan buddies and they've never been to a WS. I've got a 12er of Kokanee riding on this (can't get it in Cali, but you can in Seattle), don't let me down again, Schneider!
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10-18-2025, 10:36 AM
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#8966
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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I've been sitting here thinking about this, and I think the irony is that he put Little in because he was worried about the long ball from that part of the lineup. Little gave up 2 regular season home runs and Hoffman gave up 15 in 2025, despite Little leading the AL in appearances. Still hate it, but this justification has given me the peace I need to go on with my day.
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10-18-2025, 10:57 AM
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#8967
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Pas, MB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
I also don't think that Hoffman/Dominguez/etc hold them to zero runs over 6 outs last night.
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Maybe, maybe not. But the loss would have been easier to swallow had that have been what Schneider went with.
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10-18-2025, 11:06 AM
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#8968
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Franchise Player
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Haven’t seen such a boneheaded coaching decision in Seattle since Pete Carroll in the Super Bowl.
Ok it wasn’t technically in Seattle but you get the drift.
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10-18-2025, 11:20 AM
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#8969
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
They hit back to back homers in the 8th on Wednesday night and sprinkled solo shots in throughout the games in Seattle. The difference in the 2 wins was the Jays offence giving the bullpen room to breath. I thought we'd have a closer finish last night, but wasn't optimistic with Munoz coming in for the 9th and only a 1 run advantage. Just gotta repeat the energy of games 1/2 vs. the Yankees and we're in the world series! I'm off into the woods to cut and burn things/vent frustrations up until first pitch tomorrow. Go Jays!
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The Mariners offense had been anemic for 3 games. They hadn't put up a crooked number when it mattered since game 2.
A team should be able to win a game 2-1 once in a while and you can't expect the offense to put up 6+ runs every game. The offense has been nearly record setting through the 1st two series and they had a 2-1 lead with 6 outs left to get for the crucial game 5 win.
Bad time to bring in a reliever who has been mostly scuffling for 4 months now.
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10-18-2025, 11:28 AM
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#8970
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno
Maybe, maybe not. But the loss would have been easier to swallow had that have been what Schneider went with.
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Would it though? The battle/game was lost when Raleigh barely squeaked that one over the fence IMO. That stays in the yard and maybe Schneider is a genius today. Either way, I'll take the result over burning through more of our thin/shaky 'pen and losing in a 9th/10th inning walk-off. Not having to use Hoffman is a small silver lining at least, and I was personally already in the acceptance stage of grief for game 5 when Raleigh's ball slipped over that fence.
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10-18-2025, 11:30 AM
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#8971
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
I've been sitting here thinking about this, and I think the irony is that he put Little in because he was worried about the long ball from that part of the lineup. Little gave up 2 regular season home runs and Hoffman gave up 15 in 2025, despite Little leading the AL in appearances. Still hate it, but this justification has given me the peace I need to go on with my day. 
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Blair & Barker put it well. John Gibbons used to say “I don’t want to do something I can’t defend”.
That’s a move Schneider can’t defend. If you lose with one of Dominguez or Hoffman it’s on them. If you lose with Little…it’s on you.
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10-18-2025, 11:36 AM
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#8972
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Pas, MB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
Would it though?
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Yes, it's the fact that Schneider went with a struggling reliever that has so many people furious. He gave that game away.
Had Hoffman went in and blew it people would still be pissed. But they would be pissed at Hoffman for not being able to do the job they signed him to do. But it would have been viewed as the right call to make at the time.
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10-18-2025, 11:37 AM
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#8973
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard_the_duck
Blair & Barker put it well. John Gibbons used to say “I don’t want to do something I can’t defend”.
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Sure, but how many World Series did Gibby get us to with his infinite wisdom? ---and for the record, Dominguez was the one who gave up the grand slam, while Hoffman gave up FIFTEEN home runs in the reg. season. I also hate the move, but I have found peace with it.
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10-18-2025, 11:41 AM
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#8974
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Kelowna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
Would it though? The battle/game was lost when Raleigh barely squeaked that one over the fence IMO. That stays in the yard and maybe Schneider is a genius today. Either way, I'll take the result over burning through more of our thin/shaky 'pen and losing in a 9th/10th inning walk-off. Not having to use Hoffman is a small silver lining at least, and I was personally already in the acceptance stage of grief for game 5 when Raleigh's ball slipped over that fence.
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What are you on about? They had the fkin lead, there's a day off today, wasted Fluharty in a blowout and put Little in for the highest leverage outs of the season so far
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10-18-2025, 11:50 AM
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#8975
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scornfire
What are you on about?
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Just trying to offer a different perspective from the mass dog pile on Schneider. I also hate the move, but have found peace and moved on to the next one. Folks think Dominguez was the guy, yet he gave up a grand slam to a guy who's been struggling as much as Little lately. Much worse pitch than Little's to Raleigh if you ask me. I think Hoffman being saved for the 9th was the right move, especially since he gave up 15 HR this year and how much power that part of the lineup has. I would have gone with Fluharty against dumper myself, but on we go.
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10-18-2025, 12:01 PM
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#8976
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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It is unjustifiable to go up against the most dangerous hitters in one of the most dangerous lineups in the highest leverage situation possible without using one of your two highest leverage arms. It wasn’t even a split advantage for Little - he had get through both Raleigh and Polanco who are both more dangerous hitters from the right side to get to lefty hitter Naylor.
I am pretty confident that Schneider would have gone to Dominguez to start the inning if it was a regular season game. Because of his control concerns, Dominguez is a guy who isn’t a great “fire fighter” who will come in to strand runners. It’s always better to give him a clean inning. If anything, you bring Dominguez in to start the inning and if he ran into issues, it makes more sense to use Little to clean things up because of his ground ball rate.
Why he would deviate from the plan in the biggest game of the season is astounding to me.
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10-18-2025, 12:10 PM
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#8977
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
In hindsight going all in at the deadline to bring in another top level reliever would have been the right move. Varland has been decent but the Jays probably should have given up more to get another arm who is lights out. There were plenty of guys available. But the price was too high. That’s on management.
But given the roster we do have, if the jays lose this series, I think you have to move on from Schneider. He lost them game 5 with his bad decisions. And there’s still potentially 2 more games for him to make even worse decisions.
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Unfortunately i'm not sure it's in hindsight. I think it was known at the time the Jays needed this type of arm if they wanted to do a deep post season run. In fairness we don't know exactly why it didn't work but it's not a great look for management and I just think some attention there is warranted and not all on Schneider.
I'm not trying to defend Schneider, but I think it's worth pointing out the the Jays are here in large part due to the "I trust everyone on this roster" mentality. I'm just not as quick to agree this is a friable offence. It's a bad decision but I think there is more of a "live by the sword die by the sword" dynamic going on here.
There still in a good position to win the series but certainly possible this has caused players to doubt him. Just not sure we can know that at this point.
Last edited by cross16; 10-18-2025 at 12:50 PM.
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10-18-2025, 12:11 PM
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#8978
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
Just trying to offer a different perspective from the mass dog pile on Schneider. I also hate the move, but have found peace and moved on to the next one. Folks think Dominguez was the guy, yet he gave up a grand slam to a guy who's been struggling as much as Little lately. Much worse pitch than Little's to Raleigh if you ask me. I think Hoffman being saved for the 9th was the right move, especially since he gave up 15 HR this year and how much power that part of the lineup has. I would have gone with Fluharty against dumper myself, but on we go.
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I wouldn’t voluntarily move Raleigh to his stronger side against a rookie pitcher. You have Dominguez and Hoffman here for a reason - for the biggest leverage situations. It’s like leaving your first line stapled to the bench in OT in the Western Conference finals. It doesn’t make sense.
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10-18-2025, 12:16 PM
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#8979
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
In hindsight going all in at the deadline to bring in another top level reliever would have been the right move. Varland has been decent but the Jays probably should have given up more to get another arm who is lights out. There were plenty of guys available. But the price was too high. That’s on management.
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I really think they expected Yimi to be back after the deadline. The problem is, at his age, elbow inflammation is a serious issue and they probably should have expected the worst instead of the best.
Yimi was the glue that held things together in the bullpen and would have been perfect for last night.
ETA: the other issue - I’m sure teams were asking for Yesavage or Nimmala in a deal for a guy like Duran. Pretty glad we kept Yesavage at this point.
Last edited by ben voyonsdonc; 10-18-2025 at 12:20 PM.
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10-18-2025, 01:13 PM
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#8980
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc
It is unjustifiable to go up against the most dangerous hitters in one of the most dangerous lineups in the highest leverage situation possible without using one of your two highest leverage arms. It wasn’t even a split advantage for Little - he had get through both Raleigh and Polanco who are both more dangerous hitters from the right side to get to lefty hitter Naylor.
I am pretty confident that Schneider would have gone to Dominguez to start the inning if it was a regular season game. Because of his control concerns, Dominguez is a guy who isn’t a great “fire fighter” who will come in to strand runners. It’s always better to give him a clean inning. If anything, you bring Dominguez in to start the inning and if he ran into issues, it makes more sense to use Little to clean things up because of his ground ball rate.
Why he would deviate from the plan in the biggest game of the season is astounding to me.
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I truly think that Walker and Schneider was focused, with the 3 batter rule, on not letting Naylor beat them.
They’d rather have left hander there against him than anyone else. So he gets the first two batters as a “warmup”.
And the logic seemed that the two batters before Naylor are having to change sides of the plate as some sort of in game mind ####.
Many flaws in that logic:
I’m sure those guys switch sides 70 times per season in game. It’s not gong to affect them at all.
The two guys you’re assuming will struggle with the Herculean task of switching sides in a game are the the MLB home run leader who hit just as many HR from one side as the other, and a guy that has won 3 games this playoffs with timely hits. This wasn’t getting to the dangerous lefty leadoff hitter by having to breeze past the 8 and 9 guys, it was to go past the HR champ and a solid clutch hitter.
All this loose theoretical matchup/logic holding on by a string, Schenider shreds any hope of that coming true by bringing in a lefty who has statistically been terrible the last 7 weeks, and whose body language and confidence in himself has shown that over that time. Any of us in this thread going in to pitch after he gave up the Raleigh HR would’ve had more confidence to get Polonco and Naylor out than Little had in himself.
The fact that Schenider and Walker concocted this idea for likely most of the top of the 8th, and convinced each other that it was the right move at that time with that player in that situation, with no one else (Mattingly?) to question it, is as concerning as anything.
Last edited by browna; 10-18-2025 at 01:17 PM.
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