The New American Politics thread

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

Oh give it a rest she's not yelling.

Imagine you were at a family dinner and someone was sitting across the table from you talking to you this way, sounding like this. How would it seem to you? She's better than I've seen her. But this just isn't her forte. Content is fine, presentation leaves much to be desired.

The bit about being a policy wonk and caring about the little details was probably the best part of the speech so far.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

LOTS of people - myself included - knew that war was a farce before it happened. You forget that millions of people marched in opposition to that war before it occurred. To me, it was patently obvious what Bush and co. were selling from Bush's very first speech about it.

If her excuse for voting for a war that would lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people is that she had to because it was politically expedient, well, that's a crap excuse.



For sure, you can be wrong about lots of stuff, nobody's perfect. She's made mistakes I'm not worried about - the email thing as one example (it ain't great, but it's not unforgivable).

But when the lives of tens of thousands of people hang in the balance, and you make the wrong call and buy and obvious lie, you should be accountable for it. You don't get to wash your hands of it. Not for me anyway.

My memory of the 2nd war in Iraq is that almost all democrats were against it at first, along with middle/left media and a lot of the population. At some point, things turned and it looked like Bush had enough people on board that the war became inevitable and was a go. It was at that point that the democrats, the media and most of the population all wanted to show unity and support for the soldiers that were going to war. I don't completely agree with that, because I thought it was a frivolous case from the beginning and all the way through. But I at least understand why they wanted to show solidarity. I assume Hilary voted for it once it was already a done deal.

[Parallex]

Decent speech. She's not the natural orator that Obama and Bill are (tough acts to follow). But she gets her message out cleanly.

[bigtmac19]

She's giving a speech it's not a dinner table conversation, what an idiotic comparison.

[KelVarnsen]

Give it a rest CHL.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

MOD EDIT: Make your points without name calling.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Imagine you were at a family dinner and someone was sitting across the table from you talking to you this way, sounding like this. How would it seem to you? She's better than I've seen her. But this just isn't her forte. Content is fine, presentation leaves much to be desired.

The bit about being a policy wonk and caring about the little details was probably the best part of the speech so far.

This is not a family dinner with 10 people.

This is a massive convention with thousands of people cheering and chanting, in which she's trying to outline her hopes for the party. She's speaking emphatically.

An hour ago we complained that Chelsea wasn't emphatic enough, now Hillary is too emphatic. Enough.

She is not Barack Obama. She is not her husband. But that's okay. She's doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with this speech.

[GGG]

*the worst economic crisis may have been caused by my husbands deregulation of the banking indusrty

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Imagine you were at a family dinner and someone was sitting across the table from you talking to you this way, sounding like this. How would it seem to you? .

How the hell is that a litmus test for a speech??? If I was at a family dinner and anyone, from any republican/democrat convention ever, spoke to me like they gave their speech, I'd probably leave or stab them with my fork.

[justafan]

Women talk forcefully and passionately and they are "shrill" or "loud." When I was younger we were told a woman on t.v or radio wouldn't be tolerated because of their high shrill voices. B.S.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by GGG

What you are saying is with no real information you guessed and were right.

What information could you have read to change your mind to convince you that the war was justified?

Sorry man, believe what you like, but there was no guessing about it.

The onus was on the Bush administration to make their case for war and they didn't. They tried to tie Iraq to 9/11 and presented no compelling evidence (and there was none). They tried to justify the war on the basis of Iraq having WMDs (turns out they were wrong there too, but it wouldn't have mattered - the US had no business in Iraq even if it did have WMDs). A solid link to 9/11 or solid evidence that Iraq intended to and had the means to attack the US or an ally would have been necessary to justify it, and they never showed it.

It was an orchestrated sale of a baseless war. All one had to do was pay attention, listen to what the Bush administration was saying, and question it. Again, no need for hindsight: the case for war was false at the time for anyone paying attention, including the many allies who refused to participate.

Hillary should have seen that, and I judge her for her failure to do so. I think that's only fair.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

She's doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with this speech.

Exactly. It's fine. That's about the perfect way to describe it.

Originally Posted by justafan

Women talk forcefully and passionately and they are "shrill" or "loud." When I was younger we were told a woman on t.v or radio wouldn't be tolerated because of their high shrill voices. B.S.

And Michelle proved that this is complete BS.

[Drak]

It's the difference in pitch. Obama raises his voice too.

[Biff]

Her delivery is just fine. There is pace and inflection. There are dynamics. Is she a conversational intimate orator? No. Is she on the upside of typical? I'd say yes.

[Parallex]

Whoa... a constitutional amendment on Citizens United. That'd be something.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GGG

*the worst economic crisis may have been caused by my husbands deregulation of the banking indusrty

yeah Dubya couldn't even save it.

[Itse]

Btw, I think Clintons doing fine. I mean she's never going to the greatest orator of all time, but she's far from terrible.

Also succesfully reminds me of why people like me like Obama, despite all the drone bombings, hunting whistleblowers etc. Both approach politics as nuanced and complicated, yet leave room for positive ideals.

[Hyde]

She's a strong powerful women.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

LOTS of people - myself included - knew that war was a farce before it happened. You forget that millions of people marched in opposition to that war before it occurred. To me, it was patently obvious what Bush and co. were selling from Bush's very first speech about it.

If her excuse for voting for a war that would lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people is that she had to because it was politically expedient, well, that's a crap excuse.



For sure, you can be wrong about lots of stuff, nobody's perfect. She's made mistakes I'm not worried about - the email thing as one example (it ain't great, but it's not unforgivable).

But when the lives of tens of thousands of people hang in the balance, and you make the wrong call and buy and obvious lie, you should be accountable for it. You don't get to wash your hands of it. Not for me anyway.

I was going to argue that GW Bush should be held accountable but he was so adorable dancing at the Dallas police memorial... I can't stay mad at that guy.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

And Michelle proved that this is complete BS.

Blacks often have lower voices than whites. Applies to women too.